Single-Stage Paint Good Idea for Old Truck?

[Chips O'Toole]

I know this isn't a car forum, but there are some pretty sharp people here, so I am posting a question about car paint.

I have an '07 Ram with a Cummins. The clear coat is long gone. I have read that the things people say about preserving clear coat are not true. People (especially detailers and people who sell detailing products) claim that if you wax a car frequently, the clear coat will last. I have read that this is totally untrue, and that the reason clear coat comes off is repeated heating and cooling cycles. The sun heats the car, the clear coat expands at one rate, and the base coat expands at another. They pull against each other. Same thing happens when the car cools. Over time, the layers separate.

This sounds correct to me, since just about every dark Florida car that isn't garage-kept loses its clear coat before long.

I want to have the truck painted, because the engine will last for eternity, and the truck doesn't have the wacky environmental stuff later models incorporated. I do not like two-stage paint because it seems like a stupid idea for reasons cited above. Also, my understanding is that it is completely impossible to do local repairs on damaged clear coat. If you can't buff something out, you have to sand down to the base coat, redo the base coat, and redo the clear coat, repainting at least an entire panel. I am told the reason for this is that once clear coat cures, there is no way to make new clear coat bond to it, so if when you spray new clear coat and overlap the old clear coat, the new clear coat will flake off. Is this correct, or have I been misled? Someone is trying to tell me small repairs are no problem, but everywhere else I look, they say it's impossible.

I am pretty old, and my recollection is that car paint used to outlast cars every time, unless rust was involved. I know cars used to develop a chalky outer layer, but it could be buffed off many, many times. Am I wrong about that? I don't remember anyone I know having a car that needed to be repainted in the old days, but today, it's routine after maybe 7 years.

I would like a tough paint job that can have small areas redone easily if the truck gets scratched or whatever. Is single-stage the way to go, and if so, is there a particular product to ask for? The truck is metallic red, and I want to keep it that way.

 

[CJ5Dave]

I am about to paint my F350, and talked to my parts store and paint supplier about choices. I can paint the primer and color pretty well, but have never painted clear coat. I have heard it’s difficult. My parts store people said don’t clear coat, just give an extra thick layer of paint. They also said if you have paintless dent repair done it pops the clear coat off. My Ranger was in a hail storm maybe 5 years back and got a full repaint, $5800 paint job on a 2005 truck. Insurance paid, I would not have. The best body shop in town did it and the clear coat is already coming off. The ranger is parked in a carport every night, but we have hackberry aphids who get nasty sap on the paint like glue. I’m gonna leave the clear coat off my F350 and it will also save about 1/3 paint cost.

 

[sdelivery]

I am not a body man or painter. I have seen my buddy who is a professional body man sand all the clear coat off and re spray clear coat. I have never stood and watched so I am sure there are details I am missing BUT head down to your local automotive finish supply store, they will have the answers and know which products to use.

 

[rodm1]

This is my experience "you have to sand down to the base coat, redo the base coat, and redo the clear coat, repainting at least an entire panel". I will check a panel I have if I remember.

I have a panel I sanded down smooth and single stage over it I think it is peeling up. It took many years but it failed again. The painted panel is all rust the single stage paint is gone.

 

[FOMOGO]

I've used these folk in the past for paint/primerhttps://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ . Paint has gotten ridiculously expensive in recent years. Mike

 

[Chips O'Toole]

I'm not painting this huge truck myself. I have nowhere to do it and no skills. I want to know what to ask for. I was thinking single-stage would save me money and also make the truck easier to fix in the future.

I have been reading up some more, and as is so often the case, environmentalism, not value for the consumer, is the reason carmakers abandoned a product that worked. Two-stage paints give off fewer VOC's during application. On the down side, which is pretty severe, repeat exposure to isocyanates in two-stage paint can cause permanent allergies to develop, resulting in incurable asthma. So the trees and bunnies benefit, but if you become sensitive to isocyanates, you have a very unpleasant health problem that will never go away. And it has killed a bunch of people.

And isocyanate allergies can be triggered by SKIN exposure, so a respirator won't protect you. And you can't predict when the allergy will develop. Could be the 5th time you paint, or the 50th.

Isocyanates are also used in Great Stuff foam, which I have been exposed to a lot.

I don't know if all two-stage urethane paints contain this stuff or not.

 

[CJ5Dave]

I thought that new autos have baked on paint. your local fender bender does not.

 

[twraska]

I am about to paint my F350, and talked to my parts store and paint supplier about choices. I can paint the primer and color pretty well, but have never painted clear coat. I have heard it’s difficult. My parts store people said don’t clear coat, just give an extra thick layer of paint. They also said if you have paintless dent repair done it pops the clear coat off. My Ranger was in a hail storm maybe 5 years back and got a full repaint, $5800 paint job on a 2005 truck. Insurance paid, I would not have. The best body shop in town did it and the clear coat is already coming off. The ranger is parked in a carport every night, but we have hackberry aphids who get nasty sap on the paint like glue. I’m gonna leave the clear coat off my F350 and it will also save about 1/3 paint cost.

The base (color) for clear coat and single stage are different paints. You need to go to someone who knows paint.

 

[Turnaround]

The paint manufacturers offer a tremendous amount of information about applying their products. Things like: ambient temperatures, choices of thinners relative to temperature, spray gun air pressures, spray gun nozzle sizes, pre-sanding, harmful residues from cleaning materials, etc. The paint professionals wisely read this info. You and I should do the same. Full body protection is absolutely required. If you skip the body protection, you die sooner than your allotted time, so do not skip anything.

 

[Pevehouse]

I know this isn't a car forum, but there are some pretty sharp people here, so I am posting a question about car paint.

I have an '07 Ram with a Cummins. The clear coat is long gone. I have read that the things people say about preserving clear coat are not true. People (especially detailers and people who sell detailing products) claim that if you wax a car frequently, the clear coat will last. I have read that this is totally untrue, and that the reason clear coat comes off is repeated heating and cooling cycles. The sun heats the car, the clear coat expands at one rate, and the base coat expands at another. They pull against each other. Same thing happens when the car cools. Over time, the layers separate.

This sounds correct to me, since just about every dark Florida car that isn't garage-kept loses its clear coat before long.

I want to have the truck painted, because the engine will last for eternity, and the truck doesn't have the wacky environmental stuff later models incorporated. I do not like two-stage paint because it seems like a stupid idea for reasons cited above. Also, my understanding is that it is completely impossible to do local repairs on damaged clear coat. If you can't buff something out, you have to sand down to the base coat, redo the base coat, and redo the clear coat, repainting at least an entire panel. I am told the reason for this is that once clear coat cures, there is no way to make new clear coat bond to it, so if when you spray new clear coat and overlap the old clear coat, the new clear coat will flake off. Is this correct, or have I been misled? Someone is trying to tell me small repairs are no problem, but everywhere else I look, they say it's impossible.

I am pretty old, and my recollection is that car paint used to outlast cars every time, unless rust was involved. I know cars used to develop a chalky outer layer, but it could be buffed off many, many times. Am I wrong about that? I don't remember anyone I know having a car that needed to be repainted in the old days, but today, it's routine after maybe 7 years.

I would like a tough paint job that can have small areas redone easily if the truck gets scratched or whatever. Is single-stage the way to go, and if so, is there a particular product to ask for? The truck is metallic red, and I want to keep it that way.

Base coat clear coat systems are the way to go actually. If you use a good product and the prep is done correctly then it will last a very very long time and keep its shine