Non hydraulic press?

[m1kemex]

If I was to get my dream setup it would be a 3ton arbor press on the side of my 22tn antique H frame Manley screw press. They made that as an option but I was lucky to find my antique screw press as it was. I never even knew they existed until I found this on Craigslist. I love the tactile feedback of both and prefer them to hydraulic. Especially for broaching. The old screw press has three levels of mechanical advantage. Most times I only use level two. The other wish is that it would be the open side frame type so you can feed long pieces like stock or shafts through sideways through the H frame to give wider support. I always wondered why several 50tn presses I’d seen didn’t have the solid channel frames like smaller presses. This was pointed out to me as a great feature not a cheap bug. I can’t be without either style of press as they are so useful for so many things.

That screw press sounds like what I'm after. But after the feedback I'm coming to realize that the practicality of an open throat frame is what keeps arbor presses alive. Even though you can slip material between the columns in an H frame press, taking pieces in and out is still a hassle.

So I'm now wondering how an offset head H frame press would look like (never seen such a thing). I made an Escher-esque sketch of two C-frames joint together. After a quick skeptical look, it doesn't seem very practical for bending long pieces unless the bottom support plate is modified.

 

[C-Bag]

That screw press sounds like what I'm after. But after the feedback I'm coming to realize that the practicality of an open throat frame is what keeps arbor presses alive. Even though you can slip material between the columns in an H frame press, taking pieces in and out is still a hassle.

So I'm now wondering how an offset head H frame press would look like (never seen such a thing). I made an Escher-esque sketch of two C-frames joint together. After a quick skeptical look, it doesn't seem very practical for bending long pieces unless the bottom support plate is modified.

What sets the arbor press apart is the speed. If you have ever done a real tight press fit where you had to heat one part and freeze the other you know what I’m talking about. With a hydraulic press by the time you’ve got things lined up right the temps have equalized and it can become a brute force struggle. With the arbor press you can slam it home while you still have the temp difference and it’s way easier. That same speed and reach is very nice for doing tuck shrinking on sheet metal instead of using a tucking hammer and a stump. Easier to control too. All about the right tool for the job.

My journey to repair the old Manley press is:

Manley mechanical press

I’ve been on the hunt for quite a while for a larger arbor press specifically for broaching. I have an old 2tn Jet arbor press that did great for all my projects so far but doesn’t have the umph or stroke for 8mm or 3/8 broaches. The other day this popped up and it was kinda rusty looking so I...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[IHinIN]

When I built my 20 ton hydraulic press, I extended the horizontal beams past the side to add an arbor press there. One of these days…..

 

[Eddyde]

At my old shop I had a vintage, 35 ton, H frame, hydraulic presss. Each of the uprights were constructed of two, 6" wide, ¾" thick flat plates, bolts with bushings, kept them separated by about 6". This meant it was possible to run long shafts through sides the press.

Yeah, that's what I thought: it's much cheaper to polish a cylinder than to cut a large screw (or rack). Hoses are cheap. Fluids are cheap. Everything in a typical small tonnage press is quite cheap to make; plus they make maybe hundreds of thousands per yer. Like with the small drill presses, a modern hydraulic press is the promise of cheap (universally available) technology fulfilled.

But where is the catch? That's my question.


If I make one I'll just overbuild it; sort of a safety margin in construction / lifting equipment.

Bottom line: if I get to make it, I'll do it for myself, to my liking. I don't see a problem spending money if I'm spending it on myself...

There seems to be the catch. A C (open) frame press is inherently more expensive than an H (closed) frame. It takes more material to get the same level of structural resistance. But you get easier access in return; more practicality. Even with H frames that use beams on each side and have clearance in the middle, to take in and out a long work piece must cumbersome; specially if it's a heavy one.

Another thing I've noticed is that H frame presses are built out of steel and arbor presses are made of cast iron. As nice as cast iron is for some other applications, I don't really see much benefit here. It makes the tool twice as heavy because cast iron has about half the strength of steel.

So what about an "hybrid v" design? Like two C frames joined at the middle:
View attachment 501561
Seems like it'd have (some of) the advantages of both kinds of presses.

That configuration might not be necessary, At my old shop I had a vintage, 35 ton, H frame, hydraulic presss. Each of the uprights were constructed of two, 6" wide, ¾" thick flat plates, bolts with bushings, kept them separated by about 6". This meant it was possible to run long shafts through sides of the press.
I wish I still had that one but had to let it go when I moved on.

I believe Cast Iron is used on arbor presses because it is more rigid, has more compressive strength, than steel. Steel has more tensile strength.

 

[m1kemex]

What sets the arbor press apart is the speed. If you have ever done a real tight press fit where you had to heat one part and freeze the other you know what I’m talking about. With a hydraulic press by the time you’ve got things lined up right the temps have equalized and it can become a brute force struggle. With the arbor press you can slam it home while you still have the temp difference and it’s way easier. That same speed and reach is very nice for doing tuck shrinking on sheet metal instead of using a tucking hammer and a stump. Easier to control too. All about the right tool for the job.

What do you mean by "by the time you’ve got things lined up right"? The way I see it, most arbor presses are fixed in size, not adjustable like hydraulic presses. You lose time, but gain versatility.

My journey to repair the old Manley press is:

Manley mechanical press

I’ve been on the hunt for quite a while for a larger arbor press specifically for broaching. I have an old 2tn Jet arbor press that did great for all my projects so far but doesn’t have the umph or stroke for 8mm or 3/8 broaches. The other day this popped up and it was kinda rusty looking so I...

www.hobby-machinist.com

I've seen your thread. It's such a nice machine!

At my old shop I had a vintage, 35 ton, H frame, hydraulic presss. Each of the uprights were constructed of two, 6" wide, ¾" thick flat plates, bolts with bushings, kept them separated by about 6". This meant it was possible to run long shafts through sides the press.

That configuration might not be necessary, At my old shop I had a vintage, 35 ton, H frame, hydraulic presss. Each of the uprights were constructed of two, 6" wide, ¾" thick flat plates, bolts with bushings, kept them separated by about 6". This meant it was possible to run long shafts through sides of the press.
I wish I still had that one but had to let it go when I moved on.

Yeah, it's possible to slide stuff between the columns. But like I said, it's less convenient, than simply having the front open. This is exactly what the discussion is about: if I had the freedom to make a press any way I wanted, and not simply copy existing designs, what such a press would look like?

I believe Cast Iron is used on arbor presses because it is more rigid, has more compressive strength, than steel. Steel has more tensile strength.

In a press frame at least half of the forces are in bending / tension.

 

[C-Bag]

most arbor presses are fixed in size, not adjustable like hydraulic presses. You lose time, but gain versatility.

True, but I’m talking about ram speed. I get the height could be adjusted ahead of time, but it takes a little bit of aligning before you can press a bushing home. Hydraulic is slow and pressing say a bushing in is way faster with an arbor press. That speed takes advantage of the temp differential while the hydraulic can lose that advantage. The setup would be like IH with the arbor press on the side of the H press then you could adjust the height of the bed which would super handy. Depth of throat adjustment would be handy too but I’ve not seen that.