Needing more than a spark test?

Solutions should work fine, just will produce a lower count rate depending on the concentration of the solute. The container walls will introduce some attenuation of the XRF photons. In terms of hazard implications I'd stay away from the use of solutions to analyze ferrous alloys. While Cr+6 is a widely-known hazard, cobalt is not without its problems; and it's best to avoid contact with nickel salts as well. They're fairly innocuous in their metallic state so don't feel the need to find a different hobby :p
 
I'm wondering about including a mu-metal shield in the enclosure design. If we're committed to an all solid-state detector system it shouldn't be necessary. The Al tube will be a fine EMI shield on its own.

If a scintillator+PMT approach is to be an option, then, yes, mu-metal will be needed for that.
 
I'm wondering about including a mu-metal shield in the enclosure design. If we're committed to an all solid-state detector system it shouldn't be necessary. The Al tube will be a fine EMI shield on its own.

If a scintillator+PMT approach is to be an option, then, yes, mu-metal will be needed for that.
OK - I agree. We can keep one in mind if need be, but not include it for now.
I am thinking also of the divided box. It has some advantages.

Simplified Digression about Electromagnetics
Let us have a bit for HM members who are not into RF engineering.
I knew that the complete aluminum covering would stop all real electric fields. That alone also shuts off all incoming radiated EM (meaning electromagnetic) fields, but won't hold out against LF (low frequency like 60Hz mains frequency) magnetic fields. These come from house wiring, power lines, etc. Do NOT expect to use this gadget while someone is welding in the shop!

For those who don't know the difference, a (very) condensed explanation is that EM fields are like light. They are the same stuff as light. They propagate at the speed of light. They are provoked into life only by changing real electric or magnetic fields, which we often optimize with antenna structures, but in fact, all the house wiring is acting as less efficient antennas.

To get a real electric field to change needs movement of electrons, which is an electric current, which in turn is accompanied be the making of a magnetic field. All currents make magnetic fields around the wires! If you manage to vary one kind of field, you will generate some of the other. Electromagnetic (light-like) fields are stopped completely by the aluminum shielding, which makes what is known as a Faraday Cage. You cannot make an electric field inside a conducting surface that will still exist outside the surface, and vice versa. The electronics inside the metal covers will be completely screened from EM stuff. I know we call the light-like radiation "electromagnetic", but that is only because of the varying fields we use to make it. It's not the kind of thing that would twitch a compass needle.

That still leaves the ability of 60Hz magnetics from house wiring and power lines (like the cord to your beer refrigerator) to just waltz right in, and start inducing unwanted sine-wave power line noise into the (very) sensitive low noise amplifier electronics. This is more of a problem for photo-multiplier tubes, which have an electron beam that is very readily messed up by magnetic stuff, but less so for solid state kit. For this gadget, the only vulnerable parts are the connections from the photodiode to the amplifier, and if we have them close together, to minimize the loop current area, then not much can happen to to couple in unwanted 50/60Hz noise.

50/60Hz suppression
I say that hopefully, but given that we have multi-stage electronics gain, we can, if need be, make one of the stages also reject 50/60Hz, reducing it by a factor of perhaps about 1000. To start with, I am making the amplifier straight - no suppression. If it works, then OK. Otherwise, AC mains filters get included.

Filters
I am completely sold on having the ability to mount physical elements discrimination filters. The next CAD will show them as push-on tubes that fit over the aperture to the photodiode.

[Somewhere, on this floor, are 0603 decoupling capacitors that will only ever have a future involving a vacuum cleaner! :( ]
 
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I knew that the complete aluminum covering would stop all real electric fields. That alone also shuts off all incoming radiated EM (meaning electromagnetic) fields, but won't hold out against LF (low frequency like 60Hz mains frequency) magnetic fields. These come from house wiring, power lines, etc. Do NOT expect to use this gadget while someone is welding in the shop!
The skin depth of 60Hz magnetic waves in aluminum is about 10mm (based on a calculator I found here. The use of thick-walled aluminum tubes as shielding has been shown to permit earth-field NMR spectroscopy, where the proton precession frequency is low enough that 60Hz magnetics from the mains is the primary noise source. Copper is more conductive so its skin depth is about 8.4mm but it's much more expensive. Aluminum wins this one.

I'm just being a contrarian -- for XRF, a standard Al box would make a fine shield for EM waves. My main thing is making the mechanicals robust enough to attach lead sheets where I want them, and stay there if (when?) I drop it on the floor.

I agree that allowing for up to 8 sources is a good idea. My sketches use that number; and I've got 'em in hand (well, in the building anyway).
 
If I put my cell phone in a 1/8" aluminum box it will still ring? Why is this not shielded?
Robert
 
If I put my cell phone in a 1/8" aluminum box it will still ring? Why is this not shielded?
Robert
There is something wrong with the experiment - or the box, or it's conductive lid to the box.

I have regularly had to find the noise floor reference of a spectrum analyzer with low noise front-end amplifier within a metre or so of a 150W transmit feed with gain. That is a signal orders of magnitude higher than any cell phone could expect to see. I could block it with cooking foil !

There are no exceptions to this science. Instrumentation shielding drops a signal to the point the only "voltages" left are the thermal agitation of the molecules vibrating in the first stage semiconductor device. The conducting nature of the box forces a physics boundary condition of short circuit conducting metal that an incoming electric field (voltage) cannot overcome, nor continue to exist in without spectacularly huge currents.

This same property is what makes antenna structures and communication waveguides even possible in the first place.
 
Would a barely visible air gap at the lid be enough to allow RF leakage? I also tried to shield it with an aluminum potato chip bag WITHOUT success.
R
 
Would a barely visible air gap at the lid be enough to allow RF leakage? I also tried to shield it with an aluminum potato chip bag WITHOUT success.
R
Yes indeed. It is the length of the air gap that counts. Not so much the width. An overlap can stop it, but normally, when we say shielding, we mean the conductor surrounds it completely.

My (now older) HTC phone innards is in a completely milled out aluminum case. So how does it have an antenna? On the back face, top and bottom, there is a thin plastic slot, and also all the way around the thin edge. They use parts of the case itself.

A "gap" that is the right length, can become a resonant slot antenna structure, efficiently receiving, and re-transmitting external RF into the inside. This is not the same thing as a straightforward field leak through a gap. I do assure you that if you wrap the can in foil, ensuring you straddle the gap, you will stop the RF.

If the phone still rings, it must be using Spock-Kirk Star Trek Tri-corder technology! Either that, or I have a whole career navigated in ignorance!
 
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That makes sense. Thanks. I was confused about this. What about Faraday cages built with open mesh?
R
 
That makes sense. Thanks. I was confused about this. What about Faraday cages built with open mesh?
R
The mesh size of the "squares", and the wavelength of field trying to get through are related.
Check out the door of the microwave oven. To get the 850W or so into the mug of coffee, at relatively low magnetron efficiency into a arbirtrary cube oven cavity, badly mismatched into random dielectric (food) means the initial field is in kW range. Yet the EMC seal and the mesh in the window keeps us safe. That is because the size of the mesh does not allow a whole half-wavelength of any field to do anything except warm up the wires.

A long slot poor connection leaks to some degree, depending on the wavelength. A mesh does not! A mesh screen is enough to greatly attenuate a field, bringing it to safety. That is not the same as reducing it to the point a sensitive receiver cannot respond to the remnant. A complete conductor always stops it dead!

Take a look at a DSN antenna. Notice the outer parts are a grid you could stick your arm through. The central part is continuous conductor. The outer parts are for when the dish is used at lower frequencies. The dish gain goes up with the square of the wavelength, and even becomes awkward to point at extreme gains, so it's OK to use the smaller central section for the higher frequencies, which would not reflect off the outer region mesh. The reflection off the "grid" part is still near 100% for the bands it is intended for.

DSN Antenna.jpg
 
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