Models for grinding HSS Lathe Tools

[mikey]

Not bad, Richard, especially considering you're a new guy using a bench grinder. I'd bet money those tools will cut pretty well as they are.

The tool model you are calling a Turning tool is actually a knife tool used for facing. Both of your tools will work but the tool in the middle has better rake angles ground into it and I suspect it will cut better for you.

The tool you're calling a facing tool is actually a right hand turning tool or Square tool. Your tool on the far right will work better. The shape is nearly correct and the rake angles look pretty good. The center tool will also work but the rake angles are a bit shallow; it will cut but chip clearance may not be as good.

The threading tool looks pretty good. Did you match it up to a fishtail gauge? If not then do so; it needs to be exactly 60 degrees and you need a tiny flat at the front like the model.

Give the tools a try and see how they work for you. Don't forget to put a nose radius on your tools and ensure the radius follows the corner angle up front, from top to bottom. Hone the tools well and give them a try.

I highly recommend you reproduce the models in mild steel keystock and practice with keystock until you can duplicate the models very closely. Doing it with HSS can be challenging for new guys because it is much harder to grind. Keystock grinds easily and allows you to learn how to move your hands.

Oh, and just so you know, you did waaay better than I did in the beginning. You're off to a great start so hang in there and let us know how your tools work.

 

[Headrc]

Thanks Mikey. I guess I should get some regular key stock ...although again it seems locally all I can find is zinc coated ...and getting low carbon shipped to me was more expensive then the HSS blanks you recommended. Which is why I just went with that. On this ...do you think that it is possible to really duplicate your samples with a bench grinder? Getting that top rake is really hard to do and I did my best to mimic it without grinding my hand.

I don't even own a fishtail gauge yet ....so no the threading tool was not checked with that ...yet. I will be getting one of course and check with that. Although threading will not be on my hit list at this time due to the fact that my lathe does not have a quick change gear box or even back gears. And in fact it may be another week or two before I even try regular turning with the other tools. I am studying the whole process of using a lathe and do not want to even crank it up until I understand all of the nuances of it as a beginner.

I will take note on the actual uses of the tools and of course be putting a radius on them. I did not do that because I wanted to make sure I was headed in the right direction.

Sigh, looks like there is yet another piece of equipment on the agenda ....a smaller belt sander. Just when I thought I was out ...they keep pulling me back in!

You really are a giving and helpful resource ...as well as many others here. Hopefully I can return the favor somehow. Thanks, Richard

 

[Esmith41]

Thanks Mikey. I guess I should get some regular key stock ...although again it seems locally all I can find is zinc coated ...and getting low carbon shipped to me was more expensive then the HSS blanks you recommended. Which is why I just went with that. On this ...do you think that it is possible to really duplicate your samples with a bench grinder? Getting that top rake is really hard to do and I did my best to mimic it without grinding my hand.

I don't even own a fishtail gauge yet ....so no the threading tool was not checked with that ...yet. I will be getting one of course and check with that. Although threading will not be on my hit list at this time due to the fact that my lathe does not have a quick change gear box or even back gears. And in fact it may be another week or two before I even try regular turning with the other tools. I am studying the whole process of using a lathe and do not want to even crank it up until I understand all of the nuances of it as a beginner.

I will take note on the actual uses of the tools and of course be putting a radius on them. I did not do that because I wanted to make sure I was headed in the right direction.

Sigh, looks like there is yet another piece of equipment on the agenda ....a smaller belt sander. Just when I thought I was out ...they keep pulling me back in!

You really are a giving and helpful resource ...as well as many others here. Hopefully I can return the favor somehow. Thanks, Richard

Richard, you may want to dress your wheel and create defined edges on your wheel. I recently made a copy of the models and used a slow speed bench grinder with half way decent results. I am in the same boat as you as far as being a new turner. As long as we learn and progress each time we screw something up it’s a win in my book.

 

[Headrc]

Thanks Esmith ...the grinder was dressed when I used it. But it seems I need more practice...and I agree with you. I am also a guitarist (watching those hands!) and I know quite well the "practice makes perfect" phrase.

 

[Headrc]

Another question comes to mind now as a result of me becoming aware of the segment in the Southbend Lathe book about tool bits and grinding . Are the models we are using appropriate for quick change tool posts and their holders? Or are they designed for the older style lamppost holders? Also, I have this turret type holder on my lathe ...which you can see in the attached picture. Are these models appropriate for it as well?

 

[ttabbal]

The models here are designed for a QCTP, not the lantern post. Your 2-way turret post should work fine with them though.

If you build a 2x72, grinding tools is almost too easy. And it's useful for general shop grinding as well. Good work on those bits. I bet they will cut well, and only get better as you get practice.

 

[mikey]

I would use the zinc-coated keystock, Richard. Just use a mask and the dust won't be an issue (you should always use respiratory protection anyway). You need to understand that tool grinding is not an intuitive thing. It takes time for your brain to learn to move your hands to create unfamiliar shapes and nothing builds grinding skills faster than keystock. You are trying to learn control and that takes practice. Stick with keystock until you're comfortable that you can grind exactly what you intend and you'll be way ahead of the game. If it helps, I still use keystock when I'm grinding a new design. It helps me to see a tool in real time so I can examine the tool angles; I use keystock for this, not HSS.

Yup, I am absolutely sure you can duplicate the models with a bench grinder. The vast majority of hobby guys use bench grinders to grind their tools, not belt sanders. I can grind tools just as well on either type of machine; I just happen to prefer a belt sander. It isn't the grinder type; its the skill of the user that matters. Read through this thread and you'll see some fine examples of tools ground on a bench grinder. If I can, and they can, then you can.

Buy yourself a good protractor and a fishtail. Unlike other lathe tools, a threading tool requires precise angles so be fussy about it.

I know that things may seem overwhelming at this point in your machining "career". There is so much to learn, tool and machines to buy and you don't even know what you don't know. Let me assure you that you are about to engage in the greatest period of growth you're likely to experience in your life. In 5 or 10 years, take a look back and see if it isn't true. Welcome to the hobby and welcome to HM!

 

[tweinke]

Hard to believe this thread is still going after all this time! My belt grinder is finialy in the sea trial stages and bugs are being worked out, I think it turned out nice. Too bad life has gotten in the way of my shop time, wife wants siding and windows on the house hopefully before winter she says. Gonna make me a busy man for a while. Will post a pic of the grinder soon. I'm still just using my bits ground to match the models and am happy we started this lesson!

 

[mikey]

Looking forward to seeing the grinder when you wife cuts you loose!

Yeah, this thread has been a surprise. Over 48K views and well over 700 posts. I guess we hit on a subject that has some value to the guys, eh?

By the way, thank you for all your support, Todd. You've been behind this effort from the very beginning and you were on my mind a lot when I wrote much of the material here.

 

[Z2V]

Looking forward to seeing the grinder when you wife cuts you loose!

Yeah, this thread has been a surprise. Over 48K views and well over 700 posts. I guess we hit on a subject that has some value to the guys, eh?

By the way, thank you for all your support, Todd. You've been behind this effort from the very beginning and you were on my mind a lot when I wrote much of the material here.

Yeah Mike, you definitely hit on a good topic and did a great job explaining the grinding process. The tool models are still floating around with the members.
Thanks for your effort putting the thread together.