Master precision Machinist level

[SouthernChap]

No, you're absolutely right, but confidence will only come with time turning handles. You have undertaken a very difficult hobby that will reward you if you put in the time. Plus, the learning curve is near vertical.

Trust me, its you, its me, its the guy across the room, this is why curse words were invented. Even if it is just simply the operator making a bad setup.

If its your very first month or year of running a given machine you have a good reason to have these concerns.

But to my mind, once you perform a process on a machine well, at least once, the machine generally does not change in a short enough timeframe for you to notice. Chipping an insert or losing the edge on a tool bit or endmill will change performance, but these are things that are generally understood and looked at when an issue arises.


Now to relate this to you or others who are just beginning, if you're having a problem, ask yourself "What's the variable" or "What is causing this issue".

Is it the machine?

Could be, but if so this will be shown as a repeatable problem.


Is it the tooling?

Might be, can you uncover something that is not right? A wobbly setup, something not tightened down correctly or as above, a bad cutting edge? A magnifying glass might be needed to uncover a flaw in a cutting edge you might otherwise see as sharp. Dull cutting edges can induce vibration, cause excessive heat (Did your chips change color?), or noise that was not there prior.

Or is it operator induced?

Many times it is, this is why I'm saying just make stuff. Pick something simple and just make it. A tool for the shop, a fidget spinner, mill your name in a piece of aluminum, then work your way up to doing it in steel. But for gods sake(<<<The Japanese wine) don't jump in with both feet in your first year and try and make a working miniature Ferrari engine.

Keep in mind, you, me, him are the least reliable thing in the equation, and some days are just not good days. Ill have days where I feel superhuman and everything goes my way. Other days I cant seem to do a damn thing right.

On the good days I roll with it. Ill get 4-5 good hours before becoming fatigued and things start to go pear shaped. Know when to say when.

On days where I'm just not doing well I find something that is productive where I can do less harm. Ill organize, clean, sort, draw up plans.

You have a desire to do this difficult thing we all like to do here, and its important to understand yourself and that some days you just don't have it. If something frustrates you just set it aside and come back to it rested and in a good frame of mind.

You'll get it.



BTW, who is Rollies dad?

Thank you. That was a really interesting and sane read.

I suspect a fair number of us beginners have had previous experience of 'kit-based' hobbies and have been burned in the past.

Burned where we've got interested in something, maybe not done quite enough research, possibly not spent our money on our starting kit wisely and found that we've had a terrible time starting; experienced relentlessly inconsistent and poor results from seemingly correct techniques, unexplainable (to us) failures when we're doing something so basic that there seems little we could have messed up and the frustration that comes with that.

I saw this in field target air rifle shooting in the UK back in the 90's (I was very lucky in that when I started I had a good sensible mate who got me into it and made sure I bought a basic but good quality rifle and scope to start and taught me a lot about shooting field target); poor buggers who turned up with terrible budget rifles who's triggers couldn't be adjusted or fettled into any sort of clean break or cheap scopes that couldn't cope with a spring air rifle's action and would lose zero after a few shots. If they were lucky someone at the club (my mate, me or a couple of other decent sorts) would let them shoot their decent rifle or even lend them their spare rifle. Eh...I'm rambling now.

Anyway, the upshot is that I suspect that there is this learned terror of never getting anywhere with a kit-based hobby; not because you're crap but because there's something amiss with your setup and never finding out.

That's why some beginners might think they need to get everything adjusted and set up and levelled and aligned out of the gate so they can be sure their failures are explicable and can be corrected rather than just some random unexplained act of a cruel god!

"Some beginners"...eh, who am I trying to kid?

That's me there I'm talking about. I'm the guy who has disassembled his 7x14, cleaned and degreased every component, deburred every contact surface and is about to have a second go at replacing the headstock's deep groove ball bearings with angular contact bearings (the less said about the first go the better). All this before he's even put any stock in the chuck.

I should have just put a piece of brass or aluminium round bar in the chuck and had a play really but...I'm a programmer by trade. I reckon 30 years of always wanting to measure the success of my inputs (code) with what the outputs are (results) by testing have made me what I am for better or worse!

 

[Ben17484]

New guy here also. I’ve had a couple of lathes in the past and did enough to know I enjoyed the hobby, but not enough to really do much. The last lathe I bought (before the one I own now) was very cheap and quite worn out. I spent more time trying to figure out if the lathe was bad or it was a mistake I’d made. I decided to cough up the cash to buy a brand new machine that had the features I wanted to remove the possibility that the issue was the lathe so that I knew any error was down to me and me alone. The last thing I need to do with my new lathe is level and align the tailstock. I think I’ll use the two collar method to level the lathe and I have a test bar (admittedly an MT3 test bar that I’ll need to sleeve in an MT4 sleeve for the headstock in my new lathe) to align the tail stock.

Long and short of it is, I wanted to remove all possibility that the lathe was the issue so I could know that I was the problem and therefore focus on my learning. So I understand the want to ensure that the lathe is properly level, albeit I don’t believe I need a machinist level to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dabbler]

@Ben17484 I have some negative-Nelly news for you (what an alliteration!). Unless you bought a M&W or B&S MT test bar, you are best off assuming it is junk. Get a piece of ground stock - it is referred to a O1 precision ground, Drill Rod etc. Get a short piece in 1" and use that to set up your headstock and measure the twist in your lathe. The ground stock won't break the bank is far better than any offshore test bar you can buy, I've "proven" 5 of them so far. 5 for 5 were junk.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Thank you. That was a really interesting and sane read.

I suspect a fair number of us beginners have had previous experience of 'kit-based' hobbies and have been burned in the past.

Burned where we've got interested in something, maybe not done quite enough research, possibly not spent our money on our starting kit wisely and found that we've had a terrible time starting; experienced relentlessly inconsistent and poor results from seemingly correct techniques, unexplainable (to us) failures when we're doing something so basic that there seems little we could have messed up and the frustration that comes with that.

I saw this in field target air rifle shooting in the UK back in the 90's (I was very lucky in that when I started I had a good sensible mate who got me into it and made sure I bought a basic but good quality rifle and scope to start and taught me a lot about shooting field target); poor buggers who turned up with terrible budget rifles who's triggers couldn't be adjusted or fettled into any sort of clean break or cheap scopes that couldn't cope with a spring air rifle's action and would lose zero after a few shots. If they were lucky someone at the club (my mate, me or a couple of other decent sorts) would let them shoot their decent rifle or even lend them their spare rifle. Eh...I'm rambling now.

Anyway, the upshot is that I suspect that there is this learned terror of never getting anywhere with a kit-based hobby; not because you're crap but because there's something amiss with your setup and never finding out.

That's why some beginners might think they need to get everything adjusted and set up and levelled and aligned out of the gate so they can be sure their failures are explicable and can be corrected rather than just some random unexplained act of a cruel god!

"Some beginners"...eh, who am I trying to kid?

That's me there I'm talking about. I'm the guy who has disassembled his 7x14, cleaned and degreased every component, deburred every contact surface and is about to have a second go at replacing the headstock's deep groove ball bearings with angular contact bearings (the less said about the first go the better). All this before he's even put any stock in the chuck.

I should have just put a piece of brass or aluminium round bar in the chuck and had a play really but...I'm a programmer by trade. I reckon 30 years of always wanting to measure the success of my inputs (code) with what the outputs are (results) by testing have made me what I am for better or worse!

You just described my foray into 3D printing.

I've successfully printed 130 size helicopter blades for my Blade 130X Red Bull and flown them with success, yet I failed miserably trying to print a lettuce knife for my wife.

You're on a good road with your lathe, certainly more thorough than many who purchase this level of machine. I can help you as much as I can in setting it all back up when the time comes, but you're going to have to come clean with your goofs or risk making them again.

And since you were able to accept my critique? Not sure if the word fits, as intended without becoming offended, Ill tell you this.

Being a programmer will definitely hamper you a bit until you get your sea lathe legs under you.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

@Ben17484 I have some negative-Nelly news for you (what an alliteration!). Unless you bought a M&W or B&S MT test bar, you are best off assuming it is junk. Get a piece of ground stock - it is referred to a O1 precision ground, Drill Rod etc. Get a short piece in 1" and use that to set up your headstock and measure the twist in your lathe. The ground stock won't break the bank is far better than any offshore test bar you can buy, I've "proven" 5 of tehm so far. 5 for 5 were junk.

That and the fact he's using a taper sleeve....

When I bought my worn out Clausing 13x36 I only checked the tailstock/headstock with a coax indicator in the collet nose.

My ways are worn, but it still works well and knowing I can go by the tailstock ways to regrind the saddle ways is all I need.

Beginners take note, I'm going to purposely monkey with my lathe bed in an effort to make it better based on a set of old used ways adjacent to them.

If you can wrap your head around that it will alleviate a lot of your concerns regarding "The machine" VS you.

 

[matthewsx]

Thank you. That was a really interesting and sane read.

I suspect a fair number of us beginners have had previous experience of 'kit-based' hobbies and have been burned in the past.

Burned where we've got interested in something, maybe not done quite enough research, possibly not spent our money on our starting kit wisely and found that we've had a terrible time starting; experienced relentlessly inconsistent and poor results from seemingly correct techniques, unexplainable (to us) failures when we're doing something so basic that there seems little we could have messed up and the frustration that comes with that.

I saw this in field target air rifle shooting in the UK back in the 90's (I was very lucky in that when I started I had a good sensible mate who got me into it and made sure I bought a basic but good quality rifle and scope to start and taught me a lot about shooting field target); poor buggers who turned up with terrible budget rifles who's triggers couldn't be adjusted or fettled into any sort of clean break or cheap scopes that couldn't cope with a spring air rifle's action and would lose zero after a few shots. If they were lucky someone at the club (my mate, me or a couple of other decent sorts) would let them shoot their decent rifle or even lend them their spare rifle. Eh...I'm rambling now.

Anyway, the upshot is that I suspect that there is this learned terror of never getting anywhere with a kit-based hobby; not because you're crap but because there's something amiss with your setup and never finding out.

That's why some beginners might think they need to get everything adjusted and set up and levelled and aligned out of the gate so they can be sure their failures are explicable and can be corrected rather than just some random unexplained act of a cruel god!

"Some beginners"...eh, who am I trying to kid?

That's me there I'm talking about. I'm the guy who has disassembled his 7x14, cleaned and degreased every component, deburred every contact surface and is about to have a second go at replacing the headstock's deep groove ball bearings with angular contact bearings (the less said about the first go the better). All this before he's even put any stock in the chuck.

I should have just put a piece of brass or aluminium round bar in the chuck and had a play really but...I'm a programmer by trade. I reckon 30 years of always wanting to measure the success of my inputs (code) with what the outputs are (results) by testing have made me what I am for better or worse!

That's what this place is about. Anyone can ask any question and will get answers from people with a full range of experiences. We don't allow responses that are critical of others, but actual experience with specific machines or tools are expected.

Since I started I've seen many folks come here with almost no idea how to get started read responses to their questions and get onto the right track.

It's kinda like having that mate who made sure you got setup right from the beginning x1000.

John

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Thank you. That was a really interesting and sane read.

I suspect a fair number of us beginners have had previous experience of 'kit-based' hobbies and have been burned in the past.

Burned where we've got interested in something, maybe not done quite enough research, possibly not spent our money on our starting kit wisely and found that we've had a terrible time starting; experienced relentlessly inconsistent and poor results from seemingly correct techniques, unexplainable (to us) failures when we're doing something so basic that there seems little we could have messed up and the frustration that comes with that.

I saw this in field target air rifle shooting in the UK back in the 90's (I was very lucky in that when I started I had a good sensible mate who got me into it and made sure I bought a basic but good quality rifle and scope to start and taught me a lot about shooting field target); poor buggers who turned up with terrible budget rifles who's triggers couldn't be adjusted or fettled into any sort of clean break or cheap scopes that couldn't cope with a spring air rifle's action and would lose zero after a few shots. If they were lucky someone at the club (my mate, me or a couple of other decent sorts) would let them shoot their decent rifle or even lend them their spare rifle. Eh...I'm rambling now.

Anyway, the upshot is that I suspect that there is this learned terror of never getting anywhere with a kit-based hobby; not because you're crap but because there's something amiss with your setup and never finding out.

That's why some beginners might think they need to get everything adjusted and set up and levelled and aligned out of the gate so they can be sure their failures are explicable and can be corrected rather than just some random unexplained act of a cruel god!

"Some beginners"...eh, who am I trying to kid?

That's me there I'm talking about. I'm the guy who has disassembled his 7x14, cleaned and degreased every component, deburred every contact surface and is about to have a second go at replacing the headstock's deep groove ball bearings with angular contact bearings (the less said about the first go the better). All this before he's even put any stock in the chuck.

I should have just put a piece of brass or aluminium round bar in the chuck and had a play really but...I'm a programmer by trade. I reckon 30 years of always wanting to measure the success of my inputs (code) with what the outputs are (results) by testing have made me what I am for better or worse!

Its about enjoying what you are doing. I find machining to be my escape and enjoy servicing and being a bit fiddly with my setup. If there is something I do not like I make it so I like it and the reward for this is making something cool and hitting my measurements. I like it all, the whole hobby, figuring things out, making decisions and seeing what the consequences are.

The one thing I know, if I cannot set things down when I get stressed and walk away for a time to think about it then come back to it when I settle down and have had a chance to think it through and work out the direction I want to go with it; then it isn't a hobby anymore, its become a job and I'll let it go because I already have a job and do not need another.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

@Ben17484 I have some negative-Nelly news for you (what an alliteration!). Unless you bought a M&W or B&S MT test bar, you are best off assuming it is junk. Get a piece of ground stock - it is referred to a O1 precision ground, Drill Rod etc. Get a short piece in 1" and use that to set up your headstock and measure the twist in your lathe. The ground stock won't break the bank is far better than any offshore test bar you can buy, I've "proven" 5 of tehm so far. 5 for 5 were junk.

I have 1, between the 2 of us we can claim 6 for 6....

 

[tim81]

Well I pulled the plug and got some tools. I found some more from friend. Now need to get a vise and need to thing about any other tool I might need.

Any advice on a vise. Preferably not to expensive

 

[matthewsx]

Well I pulled the plug and got some tools. I found some more from friend. Now need to get a vise and need to thing about any other tool I might need.

Any advice on a vise. Preferably not to expensive

Looks like good basic kit.