Is there any use for a Morse Taper adapter that goes in an end mill holder?

[JimDawson]

What other MT cutters or other tools might one ever use on a knee style milling machine that don’t raise safety concerns?

Just to put this in perspective, my machine is the same size as yours. About 3500 lbs, 3HP. #30 taper spindle, slightly beefier than a R-8 spindle, but the same bearings I think.

In general I would not use tools with greater than a MT2 in a BP style machine, and only drill bits. In rare instances I use up to 1 1/4'' drill bits with a reduced 1/2'' shank. I have used straight shank drill bits up to 3/4'' directly in a R-8 collet. As massive as the machines seem to be, they are not designed to take those kind of loads. Also for any use except drilling a MT requires a drawbar. For large diameter holes (>1'') use hole saws or annular cutters, up to 4'' or so depending on material, and don't overload the machine. The quill power feed is rated at 1/2'' max in steel under ideal conditions. I have rarely used the quill power feed for any operation but boring.

For the most part, I use 1/2'' and 3/8'' endmills. I have 5/8'', 3/4'', and 1'' tool holders, but rarely use them except to hold slitting saw arbors and other tooling like that. The more stick out you have, including the holder, the higher the risk of chatter, keep things as close coupled as possible. The largest cutter I use on my machine is a 2.5'', 4 insert face mill. This is only used for slabbing off aluminum or very light facing cuts in steel. It normally takes longer to set up and use this than it does to just use a smaller tool for facing that would be used in the next operation.

Where I do have a need for a long tool (>2'' cut length), I will use a 5/8'' or 3/4'' end mill for deep pocketing. In another case, I have a couple of 2'' x 3/4'' shank endmills that were used for a specific job in plastic, I would never use them in steel, maybe aluminum under the right conditions. You can remove material just as fast with a much smaller endmill.

What I am really saying here is just because you can, does not mean that you should.

For hole center locating, a coaxial indicator is my favorite tool. https://blakemanufacturing.com/

 

[benmychree]

Second that motion on the Blake CoAx indicator, will center accurately on ID, OD, and center punch layout marks; they are not cheap, but a great time saving tool compared to DTIs, there are cheap knockoffs, but not near the quality and accuracy of the Blake.

 

[Cadillac]

Are the MT sockets used for grinding dead centers? That was the initial reason why I got a 2&3. Or something similar more accurate??

 

[JimDawson]

Are the MT sockets used for grinding dead centers? That was the initial reason why I got a 2&3. Or something similar more accurate??

I guess if I needed to grind a MT dead center the socket would be the easiest way to hold them, if your spindle wasn't MT.

 

[erikmannie]

Thank you everybody for the informative responses. I am so glad that I discussed this on the forum, as it would appear that I was on a path to damaging my machine.

 

[benmychree]

Dead centers are usually ground in the lathe spindle, very few lathes ever had anything but MT spindle tapers, what back in the day, some had Jarno tapers and perhaps B&S lathes may have used the B&S taper, and, yes, Brown& Sharpe did make engine lathes at one time.

 

[projectnut]

I bought an Israeli 1-1/2” end mill holder. After I bought it, I noticed how very few 1-1/2” shank cutting tools are available for it (with the exception of indexable end mills as those are commonly available with a 1-1/2” straight shank).

I picked up a USA made & 2 Made in India adapters that are MT (numbers 2,3 and 4) inside & 1-1/2” straight shank outside. These are also sometimes called adapter sleeves.

The only MT cutting tools that I have are taper shank drills, and these tend to have quite a long projection in relation to their diameter. What is more, the aforementioned adapter sleeves project out of the end mill holder by up to almost 2”. I haven’t tried the MT2 adapter sleeve in the EMH yet; hopefully the EMH will contain the whole adapter.

A consensus of forum members have pointed out that this long combined projection of end mill holder, adapter sleeve stickout & the drill may well pose a risk to the operator and/or machine.

What other MT cutters or other tools might one ever use on a knee style milling machine that don’t raise safety concerns?

Everyone seems to either be forgetting about or has never been introduced to MT shank end mills. I'm not sure exactly what machines used them in the past, but they are fairly prevalent at used tooling dealers in this area. I just came back from Copper Creek resale in Footville WI. They had a container of around 100 or so end mills with MT2 and MT3 shanks. Sizes ranged from 3/8" to over 1 1/2". All were sharp, and many still had the wax coating on them from a regrinding shop.

Last year I was at RH Liquidations in Waupaca, and he had a complete free-standing cabinet with close to 1,000 MT shank drills and mills. He must have gotten them for a real deal because he was willing to sell the complete lot, cabinet and all for $900.00. The drills went from 1/4" to 2 1/2". I didn't bother to check out the end mills since I had neither the room or use for drills and cutters that large.

 

[benmychree]

Are you sure that the mills were MT and not Brown & Sharpe taper? Morse taper is not so good for milling, because they tend to loosen when milling, the B&S taper is shallower and they hold much better for milling, although they occasionally loosen too.

 

[projectnut]

Are you sure that the mills were MT and not Brown & Sharpe taper? Morse taper is not so good for milling, because they tend to loosen when milling, the B&S taper is shallower and they hold much better for milling, although they occasionally loosen too.

I must admit I did make an "assumption" they were all MT tapers. The one I did pick-up said MT3 on the shank. There were many others with smaller tapers I just "assumed to be MT2. The same is true of the drills and cutters I saw at RH Liquidations. I only looked at a few drills. Again, they said MT3 so I "assumed all the drills and cutters were MT tapers.

I may have fallen into the old trap of making an A** of myself for not looking closer. In my case I wasn't really interested in either the drills or the end mills so I didn't look as closely as I could have.

Maybe I should go back and check out the mills and drills a little closer. I have an older horizontal mill that has a B&S #9 taper.

 

[benmychree]

I must admit I did make an "assumption" they were all MT tapers. The one I did pick-up said MT3 on the shank. There were many others with smaller tapers I just "assumed to be MT2. The same is true of the drills and cutters I saw at RH Liquidations. I only looked at a few drills. Again, they said MT3 so I "assumed all the drills and cutters were MT tapers.

I may have fallen into the old trap of making an A** of myself for not looking closer. In my case I wasn't really interested in either the drills or the end mills so I didn't look as closely as I could have.

Maybe I should go back and check out the mills and drills a little closer. I have an older horizontal mill that has a B&S #9 taper.

For many years I had a B&S #2 mill with a #10 taper, and had milling cutters come loose occasionally, they and other spindle tooling need a sharp rap with a lead hammer to stay seated unless they have a drawbar to hold them in. on boring mills that use a MT spindle, a cross slot in the spindle and tooling is used with a tapered key or keys to retain the tooling, or a G&L Davis adjustable draw key is used for the purpose, otherwise it is guarenteed that the milling tool will loosen up and move out of the taper.