I need help identifying a screwdriver bit type (similar to Phillips)

[GrifterGuru]

I had a set of older DeWalt and they had gripper serations on the tip held great and of course are no longer made

Maybe they realised they were so good , they were not selling as fast, so discontinued them to force use of an inferior product?

 

[whitmore]

I always use the blunt ones for less slippage and the sharp ones for smaller screws

Ideally, you'd identify the screws with an exact matching driver type.
Crosspoint can be Philips #0, #1, #2, #3, with #2 being most common (and bunches of 00, 000 designations are also
possible. The 'sharp point' #1 will fit (bottom) in a #1 screwhead, but not in a #2 screw head (wrong "size" can easily damage the
fastener or driver tip by excessive strain on the relatively tiny actual metal/metal contact area).

Pozidrive is NOT the same, it has parallel blade faces to the rotation axis, not slanted.
Reed and Prince (or Frearson) is NOT the same, it has no blunting and only comes in ONE size/shape.
JIS is not the same, but I'm unclear on details.

The screwheads for JIS have a single dot, like this
those for Pozidrive have four radial scratches, like this as identification.

 

[Jake M]

The screwheads for JIS have a single dot, like this
those for Pozidrive have four radial scratches, like this as identification.

This really sums up the problem with "phillips type" screws... There's SO many ways, SO many variants, So many permutations, then there's discount hardware that just has a universal "cross slot" drive, and so many screwdrivers with so many permutations of how they try to make those both universal and cheap, to get as many screws as they can with the same one. It's just a free for all.

My advice is that one needs options in "phillips" screwdrivers to select a best fit. It's gone so far as to say that it's not a standard, but a free for all.

Cool trivia about JIS screws. They're all but dead. That standard stopped getting maintained maybe (10?15?) years ago, and , and the Japanese Standards people allowed it to shift over to a DIN standard that was (essentially) a duplicate of it. Nearly (very nearly) identical, and all proper drivers are 100 percent backward compatible, no compromises.
I do suspect the dot may have a different meaning. It's very common for me to see one vehicle or machine that's ONLY got certain sizes of screws dotted, when they are ALL JIC/DIN standard screws. I haven't decided if it's diameter or thread pitch, because the ones in the Japanese truck cab, which comprises a large portion of my regular job, both criteria could be valid. It's the SAME two sizes of screws, the thread pitch on those two is ALWAYS fine thread, and I havn't found coarse ones to compare in that particular application.
From that I believe that the dot DOES indicate JIS (even if it's new enough to be DIN), but the lack of a dot does NOT indicate that it's not JIS.

Just observations, I've never bought the specs.

 

[WobblyHand]

This really sums up the problem with "phillips type" screws... There's SO many ways, SO many variants, So many permutations, then there's discount hardware that just has a universal "cross slot" drive, and so many screwdrivers with so many permutations of how they try to make those both universal and cheap, to get as many screws as they can with the same one. It's just a free for all.

My advice is that one needs options in "phillips" screwdrivers to select a best fit. It's gone so far as to say that it's not a standard, but a free for all.

Cool trivia about JIS screws. They're all but dead. That standard stopped getting maintained maybe (10?15?) years ago, and , and the Japanese Standards people allowed it to shift over to a DIN standard that was (essentially) a duplicate of it. Nearly (very nearly) identical, and all proper drivers are 100 percent backward compatible, no compromises.
I do suspect the dot may have a different meaning. It's very common for me to see one vehicle or machine that's ONLY got certain sizes of screws dotted, when they are ALL JIC/DIN standard screws. I haven't decided if it's diameter or thread pitch, because the ones in the Japanese truck cab, which comprises a large portion of my regular job, both criteria could be valid. It's the SAME two sizes of screws, the thread pitch on those two is ALWAYS fine thread, and I havn't found coarse ones to compare in that particular application.
From that I believe that the dot DOES indicate JIS (even if it's new enough to be DIN), but the lack of a dot does NOT indicate that it's not JIS.

Just observations, I've never bought the specs.

FWIW, JIS bits in JIS screws are remarkably effective. A Philips bit in a JIS screw is nearly a way to ruin the screw. Learned this the hard way repairing some import cars. Using the matching bit is a must removing crusty screws.

I've found that most Chinese cross head screws are easily removed using a JIS bit, but not a Philips. The Philips bit will destroy the screw. Good to know for those of us that have Asian origin machine tools. I have several JIS screwdrivers and also some Chapman JIS bits. Worth their weight in gold.

 

[Jake M]

FWIW, JIS bits in JIS screws are remarkably effective. A Philips bit in a JIS screw is nearly a way to ruin the screw. Learned this the hard way repairing some import cars. Using the matching bit is a must removing crusty screws.

I've found that most Chinese cross head screws are easily removed using a JIS bit, but not a Philips. The Philips bit will destroy the screw. Good to know for those of us that have Asian origin machine tools. I have several JIS screwdrivers and also some Chapman JIS bits. Worth their weight in gold.

Agreed, The JIS "shape" does (most typically anyhow) do a LOT better with a "universal unbranded cross slot" than phillips ever will.

 

[David2011]

While rebuilding several R/C airplane engines, mostly of Japanese manufacture, I was having the problems described above with bits torquing out of the screws. I was using Apex bits which fit high quality Phillips screws perfectly. All of the engines are relatively recent but out of production and replacement parts are hard to find so extracting the screws undamaged was critical. I ordered a pair of JIS screwdrivers in #1 and #2 sizes. They made a world of difference. Any time a Phillips bit doesn’t fit perfectly I try the JIS and they usually fit, usually with Chinese made items. The results suggest that JIS is still alive and well in China.

 

[GrifterGuru]

The results suggest that JIS is still alive and well in China.

Sorry, but reading that last sentence had me laughing so hard....

Guess my sense of humor must be a tad "off"....

 

[Jake M]

While rebuilding several R/C airplane engines, mostly of Japanese manufacture, I was having the problems described above with bits torquing out of the screws. I was using Apex bits which fit high quality Phillips screws perfectly. All of the engines are relatively recent but out of production and replacement parts are hard to find so extracting the screws undamaged was critical. I ordered a pair of JIS screwdrivers in #1 and #2 sizes. They made a world of difference. Any time a Phillips bit doesn’t fit perfectly I try the JIS and they usually fit, usually with Chinese made items. The results suggest that JIS is still alive and well in China.

Most of the "impossible" and "don't fit anything" screws from China are not phillips, not JIC, and not anything at all. They're a universal cross slotted screw. The profile of that will preclude proper entry for a proper phillips screwdriver. Kinda OK but not good with some universal cheapies.
JIS screwdrivers have the tip "truncated" pretty good to get more (not full) entry into those screws, and the profile of the cross on the JIS screwdriver is pretty close to parallel, so it grabs the "universal cross slotted" screws with a better angle and more engagement.

China doesn't do JIS unless you pay them VERY well for it. Or any other standardized drive. If there's a standard associated, they can be held to it. Phillips/cross slots, slotted (flat head) screws, "allen" screws, torx screws, you name it. Heck, metric bolts with SAE threads, SAE bolts with metric threads, Universal cross slots go out the door with no standard at all. No standard sizing for the drivers, no standard shape for the hole, nothing. So once those screws go out the door, they never come back. Or grading- What grade would you like stamped on the bolt that was specified as the cheapest one available?

JIC drivers do work better in most cases with random universal cross slots, but it's not anything to do with Chinese manufacturing preferring JIC screws, it's more of a side effect of the JIS standard, that JIS drivers get a bettery "bite" and therefore work better than most "proper" types when they've got a mediocre to poor fit.

 

[David2011]

Note: To be read with a sense of humor. I can’t help it. “Flat head screwdriver” is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. There’s no such thing as a flat head screwdriver if you think about it. What kind of screwdriver fits a round head screw?

I have screwdrivers that have straight blades, Torx tips, hex bits, Pozidrive bits and all varieties of cross point/Phillips/JIS. Every one of them fits flat head screws.

 

[GrifterGuru]

Flat blade screwdriver? possibly...

Standard screwdriver? Yep.