Fusion 360 Personal the best option for a newbie?

7milesup said:
Hey Jeff, I understand your frustration. I really struggled at first until I had a good friend point out some key elements that I was doing incorrectly. Then it started to click, but it is somewhat of an uphill climb. I know that you could do it, you are a smart guy.
Click to expand...
We all need a good friend to help!
 
Personally, I have nothing against the actual product Fusion 360. If one has a business and can make money from it and afford the subscription, by all means do so.

But if you are not in business, then simply be aware, the Autocad business model is to hand out drugs to you - that you desire and eventually crave - and then to charge you for it, and sometimes dearly. It's what they do, and have done, for as long as the company has been in existence.

Autodesk are the people that got it illegal for you to sell your legally purchased copy of Autocad on eBay, by arguing successfully in court you did not own the software you bought, unlike a book, or a CD.

en.wikipedia.org

Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In 2017 or so, the company forced Autocad users with "perpetual licenses" to rent newer and significantly more expensive versions of Autocad.
Here's a post on their website. https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/prev...you-sold-us-why-would-i-give-you/td-p/9167528

I see no compelling reason to support this company, or it's stated business practices, however, your perspectives may be entirely different.
 
WobblyHand said:
I see no compelling reason to support this company, or it's stated business practices, however, your perspectives may be entirely different.
Click to expand...
Although I can understand the emotion behind this point of view, I absolutely do not understand it from a financial perspective. Since I purchased a 3-year license for Fusion 360, they have added tons of new features, not all of which are important to me, but a considerable amount are worth enough to me that I would have paid for the upgrade three times over 2 years. But since I have a 3-year license, all the new stuff comes down every couple of weeks. It's no different than lease versus purchase on a car, and a lot LESS onerous that John Deere's policies that prevent farmers from fixing their own tractors or combines. But to each their own.

I have no financial affiliation with Autodesk. But as a retired venture capitalist, I see their business model is a win-win for the users and the company. While it is certainly possible that Autodesk will at some point change their pricing plan, for the next decade at least, their strategy is to continue with the free version as a means of getting the younger generation self-trained via the free version, and thus influential to companies looking to hire already trained 3D CAD engineers. If over half the kids who learn 3D modeling are using Fusion 360, then that's going to influence larger corporations to ease the onboarding task by offering a Fusion 360 platform as one of their design platforms.

As for having your designs corked up and held hostage by Autodesk, you always have the option to export Fusion 360 designs in an agnostic format. And I don't see that part going away since it's integral to today's outsourced manufacturing interchange economy. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that if you use Fusion 360 with the integrated Xometry facility, you can design parts on your desk and have them manufactured in basically any material/tolerance at a cost that's a lot less than buying your own mill/lathe and associated tooling.

<begin digression rant>
Consider the following part in 304 SS. Note tolerance spec on the counterbores (±0.01mm or about 4/10ths"). You come up with something like this every year or two. So not exactly a "production shop" but perhaps an advanced hobbyist that comes up with some low volume niche product every once in a while (This is a Fusion drawing BTW).

T-Nut Drawing.jpg


Now, imagine I can (and do) sell 200 of these over 2 years at $100 each. Am I going to buy a VMC to do this? Not if it's the only part I come up with every year or two. But just imagine making 200 of these in 304 on a manual mill. UGH! Here's what you can do with Fusion with direct outsourcing to Xometry - quantity 100, under $50 each, in 304, made in USA in under 2 weeks. If you're willing to wait 8 weeks, the price from China drops to $30 each.

T-Nut Quote.jpg


Still want to buy that milling machine? LOL

<end digression rant>
 
I was a computer science major 25 years ago. The software as a service model was a steady theme through my time in college. I went as an active duty service member in my later 20’s. At the time it made so much sense for the development cycle.

Seeing how Adobe rolled it out has me using alternatives to their products. Not because I won’t do a rental fee model, but because the price is really high for the value I get from their products. All o really want is Acrobat. I paid for a Nitro Pro pdf license to solve that issue. Conversely, I have no issue with Microsoft’s annual fee of about $100. The value is there for me.

I pay $300/yr for Fusion and I feel like it’s a bargain.
 
slodat said:
Seeing how Adobe rolled it out has me using alternatives to their products. Not because I won’t do a rental fee model, but because the price is really high for the value I get from their products. All o really want is Acrobat. I paid for a Nitro Pro pdf license to solve that issue. Conversely, I have no issue with Microsoft’s annual fee of about $100. The value is there for me.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you on both companies. Adobe is greedy beyond the pale. I pay $10/month for Photoshop and I'm fine with that, just as I am with MSFT Office for $100/year. But the way Adobe bundles their products makes it really difficult to justify $50/month for PS and Acrobat (as an example).
 
WobblyHand said:
But in three years they have you by the short hairs, when they tell you you have to pay $2K or even more to access your own files, because they changed their licensing rules. I'm sorry, Autodesk is infamous for this. I prefer not to deal with snakes. Once you learn one version of CAD, you can transfer most of your knowledge to another, should you need to in a commercial setting.

There's nothing magical about Autodesk, except they are more prone to be allied with he-who-shall-not-be-named than with benevolence. They want you to be tied to them, so they can screw you over by changing their terms and conditions. It's their whole business model, since their beginning.
Click to expand...
One of the reasons I went with Alibre is that it seems to perfectly import native Solidworks files - so there is some inter-operability among the primary brands (though I don't think Solidworks can import Alibre's native format...). I use a lot of STEP parts and have imported a number of STEP assemblies. They usually work fine - just like any other file, except that I don't have the construction history for parametric modification.

GsT
 
GeneT45 said:
One of the reasons I went with Alibre is that it seems to perfectly import native Solidworks files - so there is some inter-operability among the primary brands (though I don't think Solidworks can import Alibre's native format...). I use a lot of STEP parts and have imported a number of STEP assemblies. They usually work fine - just like any other file, except that I don't have the construction history for parametric modification.

GsT
Click to expand...
Good to know about Alibre.

The bad thing with STEP files are they are limited containers just showing an external view. Perhaps I haven't met my ideal STEP part. STEP files don't qualify as a true export to me, where you can access the parametrics, and sub features so you can modify things at will. They have some utility, like for fasteners, I suppose, or for things that never change. If I am miss understanding about these files, please correct me, as I'm eager to learn something new.
 
davidpbest said:
Although I can understand the emotion behind this point of view, I absolutely do not understand it from a financial perspective. Since I purchased a 3-year license for Fusion 360, they have added tons of new features, not all of which are important to me, but a considerable amount are worth enough to me that I would have paid for the upgrade three times over 2 years. But since I have a 3-year license, all the new stuff comes down every couple of weeks. It's no different than lease versus purchase on a car, and a lot LESS onerous that John Deere's policies that prevent farmers from fixing their own tractors or combines. But to each their own.

I have no financial affiliation with Autodesk. But as a retired venture capitalist, I see their business model is a win-win for the users and the company. While it is certainly possible that Autodesk will at some point change their pricing plan, for the next decade at least, their strategy is to continue with the free version as a means of getting the younger generation self-trained via the free version, and thus influential to companies looking to hire already trained 3D CAD engineers. If over half the kids who learn 3D modeling are using Fusion 360, then that's going to influence larger corporations to ease the onboarding task by offering a Fusion 360 platform as one of their design platforms.

As for having your designs corked up and held hostage by Autodesk, you always have the option to export Fusion 360 designs in an agnostic format. And I don't see that part going away since it's integral to today's outsourced manufacturing interchange economy. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that if you use Fusion 360 with the integrated Xometry facility, you can design parts on your desk and have them manufactured in basically any material/tolerance at a cost that's a lot less than buying your own mill/lathe and associated tooling.

<begin digression rant>
Consider the following part in 304 SS. Note tolerance spec on the counterbores (±0.01mm or about 4/10ths"). You come up with something like this every year or two. So not exactly a "production shop" but perhaps an advanced hobbyist that comes up with some low volume niche product every once in a while (This is a Fusion drawing BTW).

View attachment 440507

Now, imagine I can (and do) sell 200 of these over 2 years at $100 each. Am I going to buy a VMC to do this? Not if it's the only part I come up with every year or two. But just imagine making 200 of these in 304 on a manual mill. UGH! Here's what you can do with Fusion with direct outsourcing to Xometry - quantity 100, under $50 each, in 304, made in USA in under 2 weeks. If you're willing to wait 8 weeks, the price from China drops to $30 each.

View attachment 440508

Still want to buy that milling machine? LOL

<end digression rant>
Click to expand...
It's clear that there's continued value for you by maintaining your subscription with Autodesk. Can't argue with that. If it works for you, keep on doing it!

I can't say the same for me. Exports save for piece parts has always been a pain in the neck for over 30 years. It is relatively difficult to truly export designs that become reusable in the new platform. There's a time investment in becoming proficient on a particular SW package. All of the above things are surmountable at a cost of some sort.

Since I have experienced other colleagues that went through this, I have no desire to do the same. So no, I'm not an Autodesk proponent, even though it seems many use it with success. Not a fan of leasing software subject to changing terms and conditions. I'd buy a copy with known T& C's, but otherwise you are just renting an apartment. I have deliberately made a different choice. Who knows how it will work out for me, only time will tell.

As for buying a milling machine vs exporting your IP to the Far East to be built, short term gains, vs. watching your business evaporate due to IP theft. Seen a few companies experience that including one I worked at. Not a pretty sight, watching the implosion unfold. Simple piece parts, yeah, those are fine. Your main product differentiator and/or IP, nope, nope, nope.
 
Downside that I've found with a lot of "pro" programs is you are paying for features the average user will never use. Like Adobe Photoshop, most people probably never used 75% of the program, so eventually Adobe released a less expensive Photoshop Essentials which dropped a lot of the more advanced functions.

Something I've found with a lot of the free use of pro programs is they hide some very useful features behind the pay wall. They lure you in with the free program to give you a taste, knowing many will give in and buy the full program.

FreeCad seems to do all I'd need, and I don't do enough that will justify my spending the money for a F360 license.

I found this guy offers some good tutorial videos for both FreeCad and F360, which can also help show off the differences if you are on the fence.



There is also FreeCad academy, which as the name suggests is focused on FreeCad

https://www.youtube.com/@FreeCADAcademy
 
OP here. I’m taking the plunge with Fusion 360, at least for the time being. For those reading this thread and wanting to learn the program, I can recommend this guy‘s videos. He’s obviously a teacher, maybe jr high? Kind of pedantic, but explains things very well, unlike a lot of people that seem more intent on showing you what they know rather than actually teaching…
 
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