First Lathe for Learning

[Rathmatik]

Thank you all for the advice and tips! I'm still waiting to hear back about the CM lathe, but will keep looking around for other local deals. I'll keep y'all posted on potential finds and what I end up going with.

 

[Aaron_W]

Not super impressed with the condition of the Central Machinery. The basic machine should be adequate for your needs but that particular one looks like it has not been well cared for. Maybe just years of use, but it is more than dirty, there are broken buttons / switches, tools just laying in the chip pan etc. Nothing about it gives me the impression it has been owned by somebody who takes care of their tools. Could be a good deal, could also be a major project. Do you have any experience to evaluate a used lathe or know somebody who does that could look at it with you?


Long term a small lathe is not going to be adequate for gunsmithing particularly if you want to do rifles, but you can learn a lot with a small lathe and then buy something bigger once you have a better idea of your needs and how to evaluate a used machine. There are lots of things a small lathe can be used for with regard to reloading.

Most of the small lathes will require some initial tweaking either because they are inexpensive Chinese machines or because they are older used machines (or both if a used import).

The 7" lathes tend to be built to a hard budget, going up a step to an 8" or 9" lathe you will pay more but they seem to be made to a higher standard and still remain fairly mobile (2 or 3 adults can move them with little trouble or need for lifting equipment).

On the very small end you have Taig and Sherline, good quality and USA made, but very small. They could be useful for case modification and such. People have done some pistol work with them, but gunsmith work will have to be small.

There are quite a few 8x16 to 8x20 lathes out there, kind of the big brother to the 7x lathes but you get more with them and they seem to be a little better quality. There are a few with a larger 1-1/2" spindle bore.

Grizzly has an 8x16, they also offer one with a DRO for a few hundred more if you really want that feature. Unfortunately machine prices have gone crazy the past 2 years. A few years ago these little lathes were selling for about $1200. Grizzly G0768 Grizzly G0768Z (with DRO)

There are similar (and usually cheaper) 8x14" and 8x16" machines on ebay, but perhaps of some interest are these with a larger spindle bore.

8.7x24" or the longer 8.7x31"

Downside to buying off ebay is seller support can be very poor if you have an issue. Some have received ready to use machines but you can expect to need to tear down, clean and adjust any machine you get (this also applies to the machines from Grizzly, but with Grizzly you at least have a seller who will respond to your issues).


Little Machine Shop offers some nice small lathes, a higher end 7x16" and a larger 8.5x20", but while the machines are small the prices are not. These are of better quality than most in this size class and Little Machine Shop is a reputable vendor that supports their products.

LMS lathes


As many have mentioned long term most seem to go for a large lathe in the 12x36 to 14x40 size, but you can actually do a lot with a smaller lathe, and hold off on the big lathe until you feel a lot more comfortable about choosing one that you will be happy with in the long term. Probably the worst thing you could do would be to get a 600-1200lb machine that you are very unhappy with. Ask John about his experience with a 14x40 Bolton lathe, and he has experience buying lathes.

$1500 or so for a smallish lathe you can tinker with and learn more about your needs can be a nice investment in skills. Then in the end you can keep it as a small handy second lathe for little projects or sell it after you have acquired your long term machine.

Having a machine to tinker with makes it a lot easier to be patient while looking for "the one". A small lathe under 200lbs is easy to sell to another person getting started, so it shouldn't be hard to get 1/2-2/3 of what you paid for it after a couple years playing with it.

 

[matthewsx]

@Aaron_W knows what he's talking about. This is the kind of community where a guy will drive hundreds of miles to help someone pick up a piece of junk. Come down for a visit sometime....

The Bolton he speaks of was an experience and an education i will not soon forget. Couldn't have done it without the help I've gotten on this forum. Fun part about the Bolton is I actually traded up from a little Craftsman lathe I also found on Craigslist. I'm a little strange though since I actually enjoy fixing stuff probably more than I enjoy making stuff. I used the Bolton to make many of the parts I needed to repair it and learned an awful lot about lathe operations by running it while it wasn't complete. Ultimately the missing gap was what made me move on from it more than anything else. I hope it's found it's way to someone who will do good work with it and I know it's in better shape than when I got it.

As with everything in life your expectations will shape your reality. If you can get the CM for ~$750 and don't mind working on it you "may" be very happy with it. I'm not bothered with switches and knobs on it, the QCGB levers are intact and from the pictures it looks more like somebody sloppy owned it rather than it being used up in a factory. Only take something like this on if you are willing to put the work in, if you want to start making chips right away buy from one of the respected sellers you read about on here.

But, if you're the kind of person who rebuilt a few motorcycles when you were young, and you already have a shop full of tools then go for it. Most important thing to know if you decide to buy the CM is to respect the process of moving it. You move machine tools with your brains, not your muscles. Read up and come prepared, preferably with other folks who have done it before.

I'm not disputing that small machines can do good work, just that for the same money you can buy used machines that will be far more capable and might even take less fiddling to get running right.

Go touch every lathe offered for sale in your area, doesn't matter if it's not something you will actually buy. Costs nothing to shop around and you're likely to learn something along the way. See how I did that? "way"....

John

 

[Rathmatik]

Not super impressed with the condition of the Central Machinery. The basic machine should be adequate for your needs but that particular one looks like it has not been well cared for. Maybe just years of use, but it is more than dirty, there are broken buttons / switches, tools just laying in the chip pan etc. Nothing about it gives me the impression it has been owned by somebody who takes care of their tools. Could be a good deal, could also be a major project. Do you have any experience to evaluate a used lathe or know somebody who does that could look at it with you?


Long term a small lathe is not going to be adequate for gunsmithing particularly if you want to do rifles, but you can learn a lot with a small lathe and then buy something bigger once you have a better idea of your needs and how to evaluate a used machine. There are lots of things a small lathe can be used for with regard to reloading.

Most of the small lathes will require some initial tweaking either because they are inexpensive Chinese machines or because they are older used machines (or both if a used import).

The 7" lathes tend to be built to a hard budget, going up a step to an 8" or 9" lathe you will pay more but they seem to be made to a higher standard and still remain fairly mobile (2 or 3 adults can move them with little trouble or need for lifting equipment).

On the very small end you have Taig and Sherline, good quality and USA made, but very small. They could be useful for case modification and such. People have done some pistol work with them, but gunsmith work will have to be small.

There are quite a few 8x16 to 8x20 lathes out there, kind of the big brother to the 7x lathes but you get more with them and they seem to be a little better quality. There are a few with a larger 1-1/2" spindle bore.

Grizzly has an 8x16, they also offer one with a DRO for a few hundred more if you really want that feature. Unfortunately machine prices have gone crazy the past 2 years. A few years ago these little lathes were selling for about $1200. Grizzly G0768 Grizzly G0768Z (with DRO)

There are similar (and usually cheaper) 8x14" and 8x16" machines on ebay, but perhaps of some interest are these with a larger spindle bore.

8.7x24" or the longer 8.7x31"

Downside to buying off ebay is seller support can be very poor if you have an issue. Some have received ready to use machines but you can expect to need to tear down, clean and adjust any machine you get (this also applies to the machines from Grizzly, but with Grizzly you at least have a seller who will respond to your issues).


Little Machine Shop offers some nice small lathes, a higher end 7x16" and a larger 8.5x20", but while the machines are small the prices are not. These are of better quality than most in this size class and Little Machine Shop is a reputable vendor that supports their products.

LMS lathes


As many have mentioned long term most seem to go for a large lathe in the 12x36 to 14x40 size, but you can actually do a lot with a smaller lathe, and hold off on the big lathe until you feel a lot more comfortable about choosing one that you will be happy with in the long term. Probably the worst thing you could do would be to get a 600-1200lb machine that you are very unhappy with. Ask John about his experience with a 14x40 Bolton lathe, and he has experience buying lathes.

$1500 or so for a smallish lathe you can tinker with and learn more about your needs can be a nice investment in skills. Then in the end you can keep it as a small handy second lathe for little projects or sell it after you have acquired your long term machine.

Having a machine to tinker with makes it a lot easier to be patient while looking for "the one". A small lathe under 200lbs is easy to sell to another person getting started, so it shouldn't be hard to get 1/2-2/3 of what you paid for it after a couple years playing with it.

Thank you for the detailed comparison between each of the various options. The guy selling the CM lathe hasn't responded anyhow, but yeah it doesn't look well taken care of for sure.

I am still leaning towards a smaller lathe to start, so I'll check out the 8x lathes as well. I actually live only a few hours from the Grizzly showroom in Springfield, MO, so I might just take a trip there once I'm ready to buy. That'll also save me in shipping costs heh.

 

[Nogoingback]

I see I'm a bit late to the party, but my advise would be to buy no less than a 10" lathe to begin with.
The only thing the mini lathes really have in their favor is the price (and size for folks with space limits).
The problem is that unless you plan on making itty bitty parts, they lack the rigidity and power to
do much else. My first lathe, which I inherited was a 6" Atlas and it took me about 2 weeks to figure out
that it was too small. I stepped up to a 10" and the difference in capability was huge. Of course, I'd
still like something bigger...

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you for the detailed comparison between each of the various options. The guy selling the CM lathe hasn't responded anyhow, but yeah it doesn't look well taken care of for sure.

I am still leaning towards a smaller lathe to start, so I'll check out the 8x lathes as well. I actually live only a few hours from the Grizzly showroom in Springfield, MO, so I might just take a trip there once I'm ready to buy. That'll also save me in shipping costs heh.

I think going to the Grizzly store would be worth your time. The difference in size and weight between a 7x12, 8x16, 9x20 10x22, 12x36 and a 13x40 is more significant than the couple of inches in nomenclature would suggest. The added features / build quality also increases as you go larger / more expensive.

As somebody with mostly older used machines, I am pretty solidly in the camp of you can get a lot more for your money buying used. The vintage USA machines also were mostly built to a higher spec than the new import machines are. The down side to buying used is do you want a project or do you want to make stuff. I have a Sherline lathe and mill which I bought new. I also have a lot of vintage USA machines, most of which were projects to some degree. I never would have had the confidence to take on the older machines as a project if I hadn't learned some of the basics on fully functional small machines. Agree with John with the comment on how much you can learn from taking on a project machine, I have learned a ton from the machines that needed work. At the same time I probably would have given up out of frustration if I had started with one. Buying used you really do want to have at least a little experience to help you sort the ready to go, good bones but needs work project, and the don't even stop at the shop, just take it straight to the metal recycling yard machines.

Another plus to starting small if you have no prior experience with machining, is the little machines are more likely to give you a nasty cut or break a bone rather than to rip your arm off and beat you to death with it.

If you were just looking for a lathe to do gunsmithing work or other work that needs a big lathe I'd be right there with the others saying don't go smaller than 10" with a 12x36 or 13x40 being ideal. With the idea that it is just a training lathe and you are ok being limited to small projects an 7" or 8" lathe should be adequate. You can do a lot with a small lathe as long as you are realistic about its capabilities. You can't do the same size work, but you can learn to do big lathe work on a small lathe. If you are interested in modifying cartridge cases, or making small tools for reloading even a 7x12 can do that kind of work. If you think you will be doing rifle work on a 7x14 you will be disappointed.

If you haven't already done so watch some youtube videos on machining. Blondihacks and Mr Pete 222 have some excellent beginner level videos.

 

[chatter chatter cut cut]

if you buy any lathe you should take it completely apart and clean and check all parts for fit . found my new 7x14 import had mismatched gears. had to buy new gear and belts.

 

[Earl]

I may have milled out an AR receiver or two, but don't do gunsmithing myself. What I have heard though is that you'll generally want a lathe that can hold a barrel either way, i.e., between centers, or through the headstock. That usually means at least 30" between centers length, and a spindle bore of at least 1.5".

Obviously that is bigger than you're looking at right now.

The biggest barrel most people will ever chamber is 1.2". Lathes with 1.25 headstock bores are easier to come by than 1.5's. I do chamber some 1.450's for my unlimited rail gun but those are not very common. (The blanks are over $400)

 

[sportfan]

I don't have the experience of the people on here with home shop size lathes. I don't claim to be a machinist by any means. I retired from a pump shop in a refinery where I ran Bridgeport size mills, surface grinders ,large drill presses, and some very large lathes. I would suggest if you decide to buy new ,besides looking at the Grizzly lathes, look at Precision Matthews also. They have reasonable prices and have models that features that most small lathes don't have. I just bought a PM1130 from them. It has 1.5" spindle bore , a powered cross feed ,two rests, comes with two chucks and a three year warranty. I've been on crutches because of two surgeries until yesterday and haven't even got oil in mine yet. I shopped a bunch on the web and looked at buying a good used machine before I went with the PM machine. Good luck.

 

[epanzella]

Per the "used American iron" crowd I started out with an old worn out LOGAN 11 x 30. For years I struggled trying to get better than .005 accuracy until I bought a brand new G4003G. Overnight I could hit .001 without hardly tying and have since built numerous rifles on it. You could say I got good training struggling with the LOGAN or you could say I wasted years using a machine that could never deliver what I wanted. Tomato or tomoto.