[Read!] Damn Near Burned The House Down - Space Heaters

[epanzella]

I don't want you to take this personally, because I know it's safety assurance with you and not psychology, but this point of view is superstitious in a way. The belief in superstitions is similar to object permanence. Object permanence is part of Piaget's theory of cognitive development, where we learn that things don't disappear when we close our eyes, and when we put something in a box, it remains in that box.

I don't take it personally and I don't know who Piaget is. Next time you throw out a resistive heating unit remove the limit switch and ask yourself if you would use it in a device upon which your life depends. There's a reason why we had the same toaster for 30 years and ten toasters since then. I don't care if the light goes out in the fridge, it's an LED. I do care when the compressor goes out, however.

 

[strantor]

I spent half the day trying to figure out why the lights stopped working in the bathroom after the hairdryer was plugged in. The GFI did not trip nor the breaker at the panel. This is an old house, plus 70 old, and the original electrician used short runs and junction boxes every 10 ft or so! Found the power feed line and both sides showed hot! So I was chasing that wire to find the other end and possible short. Thinking possible house fire! I ended up at the hall overhead light which was feeding the bathroom. No issues there! Followed the next wire from that overhead down to hall light switch and the box is stuffed. Moved things around and the problem disappeared. Put everything back together and no issue. I believe the wires were too packed in.
Pierre

I promise you the problem is still there. It could start a fire. I strongly recommend going through that box and re-do every wire nut.

EDIT: just saw your post #60 where you said you already did.

I don't want you to take this personally, because I know it's safety assurance with you and not psychology, but this point of view is superstitious in a way. The belief in superstitions is similar to object permanence. Object permanence is part of Piaget's theory of cognitive development, where we learn that things don't disappear when we close our eyes, and when we put something in a box, it remains in that box.

In other words, the idea that a pilot light must be watched is usually outgrown by preschool, mentally. Funny how it gets some of us.

I don't understand how object permanence is similar to supervising powered equipment. Yeah a running dryer will still be a running dryer if you leave the house with the dryer running. A powered space heater will still be powered space heater if you leave the house with the space heater powered. But if the space heater or the dryer catch fire while you're there to notice it, you'll be there to notice it, and able to do something about it before your house burns down. Which is how this thread started.

I guess it's about where you draw the line, and in many cases that's probably arbitrary. I don't know anyone who kills the main service disconnect to their house when they head out to the store. But I know plenty of people who unplug the blender, phone chargers, etc. And I think most people unplug space heaters when they leave. But what about the central HVAC? If it's electric like mine, it's essentially the same thing as a space heater. I wouldn't dream of leaving a space heater on unattended, but I've never turned my central HVAC off for fear of it burning down my house. I ask myself, Why's that? I think because I've heard many many accounts of space heaters starting fires, but never heard a central HVAC starting one. I'm sure it's happened, but it doesn't happen often enough to be "a thing."

 

[westerner]

House wiring is usually done by the lowest paid electricians out there...if they were any good they usually do commercial or industrial work. It pays much better.

My parents bought a tract home (1450 sq. ft. 3 bed two bath) built in 1960. Glass fuses, and damn few of them.

2 circuits in the single gang box for the furnace cord
The entire east wall of the house- one wall each in the living room, kitchen, master bath and master bedroom were on one fuse.

We always said the boss was out of town, and let the kids get their feet wet.

 

[brino]

I just don’t like having that many wires in such a small box.

There are Ontario Electrical Code limits for that, based on box volume and conductor count and AWG.
Brian

 

[pdentrem]

I am sure the inspector has been dead for over 70 years now! It has 9 #14 and 4 grounds. Like Westerner said, old houses = few circuits.

My dad related a short story of when the family home first got electricity. It is a 1860 post and beam structure and they got power in the late 1940s. The funny part was his mother turned on every light and both fuses blew! Back in the darkness!

 

[savarin]

This thread reminded me of a dumb thing I pulled many years ago.
I thought it would fit in here.
I had a 2.5 kilowatt electric fire that was on a short lead and plug.
This was in the UK where every plug was individually fused along with the circuit breakers in the mains supply.
This particular evening in the middle of winter in an unheated bath room I was relaxing in a very hot bath with my coffee, cake and book with the mobile fire plugged into an extension cord.
This was not the first time I had done this in the past with no problems.
The difference this time was I used a new extension cord on a wind up reel that I hadnt unwound. I did know better and knew what would happen.
It did, my lovely high powered electro magnet liquified the insulation on the coiled cable and bang.
Luckily no harm done except to my pride.

 

[metric_taper]

I never use any of those plug in resistance heaters. You're betting your life on a 25 cent chinese limit switch.

Last year I was using a milk room heater, that had the latest safety device which would shut down the electric power if it were knocked over. Well that tilt switch is part of the thermostat. It did a melt down of a plastic part from the thermostat switch arcing, froze the power switch closed, and melted the tilt switch to be non functional. It has UL approval on it.

 

[extropic]

What if they find two 10A loads in a 15A plug receptacle? What if they find 10A loads on three different outlets that are in different rooms, but the same circuit?

Fixed it for you.

No problem at all (assuming the circuit is protected by a 15 Amp fuse/breaker and fed by appropriate conductors).

 

[JimDawson]

but never heard a central HVAC starting one. I'm sure it's happened, but it doesn't happen often enough to be "a thing."

Mine almost did, or at least could have if I hadn't caught it in time. My home was built in the 70's, but all copper wire except for the central heating which is aluminum, a 90 amp circuit. I smelled hot bakelite one day and found the connection of the aluminum wire to the fuse block connection on the unit to be bad and was getting really hot. Things were getting pretty charred in that area before I caught it. The good news is the connection enclosure is all metal. I replaced all of the heavy power handling components in that area and properly treated the wires with NoAlOx goo. I check it at least once a year now with an IR thermometer, along with the connections at the breaker panel.

 

[JohnDB]

My parents bought a tract home (1450 sq. ft. 3 bed two bath) built in 1960. Glass fuses, and damn few of them.

2 circuits in the single gang box for the furnace cord
The entire east wall of the house- one wall each in the living room, kitchen, master bath and master bedroom were on one fuse.

We always said the boss was out of town, and let the kids get their feet wet.

Today the standards are much much different.
Lights are always on a circuit of their own (at least one if not two) 9 plugs to one circuit (20 amp or 15 amp depending upon who is doing it)
Bathrooms all share a single dedicated circuit for their plug and so do the outside plugs. Same for the clothes washer...it gets a dedicated plug for the imaginary iron.

Water heater, dishwasher, both get their own too.

Today it's always roughly 100 amps per 1,000 sq feet for a single family dwelling but shrinking amps after 3,000 Sq ft. Not that this is the actual formula for the house service.

The amount of volt/amps per Sq ft is increasing as the years go by.

If you got snakes skin romex....well you got the old stuff. Otherwise it's glass knobs and tubes that the wires were run in. And I've run into it before. Mostly I just see snakeskin romex. (Silvery coated romex cable that has asbestos and rubber wrapped wires)

A word about asbestos and electricity...the big paper fuses have the asbestos that is bad for you...so don't cut open fuses to look inside...you will dull your knife or saw and expose yourself to a case of cancer.