Craftsman 109 Lathe Question

[Aaron_W]

Well my uncle has a 109 but he said he'd be willing to sell to me for $200.

My post should have said "a couple hour drive and $200 more would be well worthwhile" (for the 618). However $200 for a 109 is what I paid for mine and I think much closer to their actual value as a tool vs how much they often sell for ($400-600 is not uncommon).

As in my later post, if you are looking more at a crafting tool than a machine tool, you may be perfectly happy with a 109. They aren't useless, just not really ideal for doing highly accurate hobby machinist work.


Agree with John, at $200 there is little risk that you will lose money if you buy the one your uncle has, and then sell it if you later get a better lathe. If it does all you need, great, and if not you will have a much better idea of what your needs are when you start looking for a replacement.

 

[Aaron_W]

Another advantage of the Atlas is the huuuge number of threads they can cut- including metric and others
and the thread charts actually do work as advertised
Also nice is that practically any part can be found- they made so many

I forgot about that, yes the 618 has a big advantage in threading, more than even many of the larger import lathes.

 

[Janderso]

Well my uncle has a 109 but he said he'd be willing to sell to me for $200.

Take a close look at the chuck. I noticed the three jaw chuck on my little 109 had damaged teeth and the scroll was missing hunks.
It looked like cast iron??

 

[Janderso]

The Craftsman 109 I got from you, I would say is inferior to a 7" mini lathe in most every way possible except style. The 109s are great looking lathes.
I think they are nice little lathes if looked at more as a crafting tool, than a machine tool. I think somebody could be very happy with one for making pens, chess pieces, hair pins etc. I think they would lose their mind trying to make something more complex like a model steam engine.

I really cannot fathom the higher prices I've seen some sell for. They often sell for prices similar to the small Atlas lathes, but are a more cheeply made and far less capable lathe than the Atlas / Craftsman 6x18s (or the import mini-lathes). In the 1950s Sears sold the Craftsman 109s for about $40, but the Atlas made Craftsman 101.07301 sold for $160.



Now comparing the Atlas 618 (also sold as a Craftsman 101.07301 or 101.21400) to a 7" mini-lathe. These compare fairly well. I'd rate an Atlas 618 over all as better (assuming age hasn't taken too heavy a toll), but there are going to be a lot of individual opinions to sway that.

The mini-lathes have some distinct advantages like variable speed, and a larger 3/4" spindle bore vs only 9/16" on the Atlas. Also a slightly larger swing, but that is offset by the shorter distance between centers.
The mini-lathes have a flange to bolt on the chuck vs a threaded spindle on the Atlas. Some prefer the flange system because it is more secure for turning in reverse, but it is slow to change chucks. Personally I prefer the threaded spindle because it is easier to change a chuck.

It will cost you, but you can get most any "big boy" lathe accessory for an Atlas 618, taper attachment, collet closer, tail stock turrets etc. They are small lathes, but they were made for light industrial work, not just garage tinkering. Tooling beyond the basics is fairly limited for most of the import lathes under 12" swing.

One big advantage to the mini-lathes is portability. They are a stand alone unit and about 1/2 the depth of an Atlas 618 which has to be bolted to a board or benchtop. The 618 is also longer than any of the mini-lathes, still a couple inches longer than even the 7x16". Also quite a bit heavier 130lbs or so vs 70-90lbs for the minis.

You mentioned it would be difficult to use the 109 to build a small steam engine. I agree.
Many of the prominent YouTube channels build their steam and gas engines on mini-lathes. Some incredible and very accurate parts are made on those little imports.
My impression is they have upped their game. However, I have never used or owned one.

 

[Aaron_W]

You mentioned it would be difficult to use the 109 to build a small steam engine. I agree.
Many of the prominent YouTube channels build their steam and gas engines on mini-lathes. Some incredible and very accurate parts are made on those little imports.
My impression is they have upped their game. However, I have never used or owned one.

I don't think the 7x mini-lathes have improved so much as there is a good network of mini users sharing info and the lathes have been around long enough that solutions have been found for many of its short comings. It is not unusual for the more hardcore owners to re-scrape the parts, replace the bearings, gears and sometimes even the motor of a brand new mini lathe.

 

[Nubble]

My post should have said "a couple hour drive and $200 more would be well worthwhile" (for the 618). However $200 for a 109 is what I paid for mine and I think much closer to their actual value as a tool vs how much they often sell for ($400-600 is not uncommon).

As in my later post, if you are looking more at a crafting tool than a machine tool, you may be perfectly happy with a 109. They aren't useless, just not really ideal for doing highly accurate hobby machinist work.


Agree with John, at $200 there is little risk that you will lose money if you buy the one your uncle has, and then sell it if you later get a better lathe. If it does all you need, great, and if not you will have a much better idea of what your needs are when you start looking for a replacement.

I just talked to him and I agreed to his price of 200 dollars, its a complete machine with all the change gears and manuals and some tooling, I'm picking it up sometime next week.

 

[Aaron_W]

I just talked to him and I agreed to his price of 200 dollars, its a complete machine with all the change gears and manuals and some tooling, I'm picking it up sometime next week.

That should work fine to get you started, and at $200 you really can't go wrong with it. They really are not terrible little machines, just very limited. One of their strongest points is that they use the same change gears as the Atlas 618 so they can actually turn a lot more threads than many other small lathes.
Sherline offers some tooling that can be used with these. Sherlines use MT1 and MT0 tapers like these, and although Sherline uses a 3/4"-16 thread, they offer some of their chucks with a 1/2"-20 thread made to fit these lathes.

The spindles are notoriously weak so be careful not to get too enthusiastic with any work, take light cuts and use sharp tools.

I would also suggest that you don't spend too much time / money trying to improve the lathe. Replacing the spindle (if damaged), a quick change tool post and maybe mounting the lathe to a thick piece of steel are about the only cost effective improvements. Much more than that you are really better off saving the money for a better lathe.

There is a great thread here on the forum about sharpening high speed steel lathe bits. Learning to grind tooling well, is going to be particularly useful for this lathe. Models for grinding HSS Lathe tools

If you get nothing else from this lathe, it will help you figure out where to go from here.

Hope you have fun with the lathe, and this is a friendly forum, don't hesitate to ask questions somebody will almost always try to offer an answer.

 

[Nubble]

Okay so my uncle sent me pictures of the lathe. It looks like I might have to get a three or four jaw Chuck, just curious how easy is it to thread on this lathe?

 

[twhite]

Okay so my uncle sent me pictures of the lathe. It looks like I might have to get a three or four jaw Chuck, just curious how easy is it to thread on this lathe?

I would ask him if he has any attachments lying around.

You can download a manual for the lathe. There might be info on how to thread. Threading is straight forward. It is pretty much the same on all lathes. You just need to make sure you have the correct gearing setup.


Cutting oil is my blood.

 

[cfciii03]

I've haven't read good things about the 109 machines.