Completely OT. Jobs

[Shotgun]

I've made friends at work. It was great. But, I didn't go to work to make friends. I went to make money. If they are actually friends, they'll be happy that you found a position that paid more. Sad your leaving, but happy you improved your lot. I'll be loyal to my employer when the grocery stores start being loyal to me. (It's funny, because it is a ridiculous thing to ask.)

And as for not going to work for the company you agree to go with: How long would you be required to work there at lower wages before you would have adequately displayed your loyalty to the random people you don't really know that want to pay below market rates? As I see it, you did them a favor. Now they have a better understanding of what the market rates are.

BTW, my employer doesn't pay quite the market rate. But, they pretty much let me do things in whatever way I want, have provided rapid advancement, and little to no pressure. So, it isn't all about money. But, we all know why I'm there.

 

[Inferno]

You nailed it on the head.
I won't work for anyone that manages "ME". I do what they ask me to do. I make them money. They give me a task to do and I get it done.
I'm good at what I do. Almost always.
My last employer said they liked my idea on how to run the department during my interview and I delivered what I said. Unfortunately the owner above me was not one to embrace change and was uncomfortable when things were done different than they were 35 years ago. But y results spoke for themselves.
But he was one of those guys who thinks working harder is better so even if you work smarter (my crew) he wanted to see them work harder.
You don't get it both ways.
For the most part he let me do things my way but he would get nervous and make demands on labor (time) even though I would reassure him we were on track.
That was our disconnect. He wanted my results but he wanted them done his way. His way, for 35 years, didn't produce my results.
Anyhow, as I walked through the door on my first day he basically said "here's your department, run it". I liked it at first because I think he was told to stay out of the way. At the end I was looking at the door all day long.

They just beat me to the punch. Their sales in my department had tanked and I really wasn't needed anymore if he was going to insist that the department were run his way. He could handle it himself.

I was happy to hear them tell me I was done. In all reality this whole thing has enriched my bank account because I was paid out all my vacation, plus severance, and since they did that day one, I could legally collect unemployment.

Bottom line is that I will do my best if I'm given creative license and will stick around if the money is OK. If the money is bad and/or I'm just a generic employee, you get what you get until I find a new gig. It's not my loss, it's theirs.

That was probably more than anyone wanted to read.

 

[dkemppai]

I feel all of your frustrations. Seeing as I'm often on the other end of the interview table, I also am disheartened with the responses many of you have given.

//Warning. Rant mode on//
This feels like a chicken and egg sort of problem. There's talk of lack of loyalty, but that street goes both ways.

We are loyal to our employees (I've heard several guys say they make better money here than ever before. We kept people on payroll during covid, gave extra sick time during covid, are very liberal with sick time and unexpected family emergencies, drug and alcohol problems, etc.). However, the reality is a new hire hasn't shown us any loyalty yet either. More often than not, that unknown person wants the pay of someone with 5 or 10 more years experience. In this particular business, it takes people about 3 years to be 'fully trained' to do what we do. In that amount of time, you're learning and we aren't really making anything on that investment. If you bail, we've literally lost money the whole time.

The reality is if the company can't make money, they can't pay you. Don't forget, it's not just the pay you get. It's healthcare, retirement, half of social security, insurances, and the building, power, water, lights. Your paycheck might not even be half of what you cost us. Bringing on, training, and retaining an employee is expensive. We're not trying to screw you, we're just trying to keep profits up. Without profits, you don't have a job, and neither do we.
//Rand mode off//

So, please, be honest with whoever you're interviewing with. That's worth so much more to us on the other side of the table than you may realize. When you hide things like other job prospects/interviews/offers it instantly forms distrust. That's a really crappy first impression.

One of the absolute worst things to hear is after someone has accepted a job that they want us to 'hold' until they hear about another job prospect. We just wasted a bunch of time advertising, screening, and interviewing. (You want us to continue needing to get work done, to wait and see if you get a better offer??? What!!!) We decided you were the most qualified person for the job, and suddenly we get a 'Hold on a minute, I might have a better offer." If you were waiting for a better job, keep waiting and don't accept. Telling us you'll take it and then bail leaves us high and dry and we have to start the expensive process of searching over again.

Yes, I do feel all of your frustration. But you have to realize it's not easy on the other side of the table either.

 

[Inferno]

Great. Thanks for your response.
Now, can we get an honest answer (not implying you're dishonest)
IF an interviewee tells you, during the interview, that they have a few resumes out there, who might be better jobs, but you haven't heard anything from them, would that affect your decision to offer a job?

The point being, when I accepted the first offer, I had 3 other companies with better packages that I hadn't heard back from. UE requires you to take a job if offered.
When one of those other three came back, before my start day, making almost $20K more per year, should I have passed it?

I, too, have been on the other side of the interview table. As much as it might suck for me, I don't want an employee working for me when I know, and they know, and I know that they know, they could be making $1500 more per month somewhere else.

 

[Shotgun]

Alls fair in love, war and employment agreements.