Chinese Machine Quality Ranking

[MERLIncMan]

I have a PM lathe and mill; they are both Chinese as PM marks the Taiwanese models, and sells them at a premium. I am happy with both for the most part. There are things here and there, but all things considered, they work well enough for my purposes.

I also have a Vevor 2x72 belt grinder. Owing to the absurdities around 110VAC variable speed motors in general, and monster belt-grinders in particular, it was by far the only feasible alternative for price. The bearings, platen, and overall fit-n-finish leave much to be desired BUT - it is a giant abrasive belt that sounds like a turbine engine and removes material. Precision? Not on your life. Quality? That's funny! Does it work? Yes.

I have had some horrid luck with some equipment, I have had some nice experiences for reasonable-ish prices.

My worst experience BY FAR has been India. HSS that is not HSS (I have no idea what it is, but it is most certainly not a tool-steel, let alone High Speed). ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING customer-service. I've literally sent dozens of pictures with giant red circles showing problems, and the sellers still claim that there is nothing wrong (though both Ebay and Amazon have eaten the costs). Things bored so far off-center that I genuinely wonder if the guy was stoned, drunk, or mentally deficient. Cheap quality is one thing, quality so bad that the gizmo cannot even be used poorly is something else entirely. Carbide that can't scratch aluminum?!?!

It is so bad that I've actually gotten to the point that if I see India anywhere in an ad, I don't buy it.

I'm not really a cheap guy - just self-funded on a shoestring. I don't hesitate to get Chinese (as though there is even an option at this point) but if I see any mention to India, it's a hard-pass.

Yes, it really is that bad.

 

[ErichKeane]

Yall are too kind to Grizzly. They DO have great support, but their machines/accessories are hit or miss between "they actually spent time making sure it wasn't garbage" and "Basically Vevor".

 

[Reddinr]

Agree about Grizzly quality being hit and miss. Even looking around the showroom you see casting issues, cross-slides that bind etc. I seem to have gotten lucky with very few issues with a Grizzly (G0509G) lathe. Have a Griz. bench grinder, indexer and a few other odds and ends that have been pretty-good to great in quality and operation. Their customer service has been great, answering questions during setup and sending a replacement part that I broke out of stupidity.

 

[Winegrower]

I have had two Grizzly tools and gave them both away to people I didn’t like. I’ll never buy another.

 

[Shiseiji]

25+ years ago I read in a woodworking magazine an interview with a Grizzly representative. This was when they had just started to sell imports and the topic turned to manufacturing in Taiwan. I think it's reasonable to believe the philosophy on mainland China is the same.

When they put reps on site and caught problems, no argument over rejects. But it was up to the rep to catch them. Now picture PRC where I learned it is still common for a consumer to require an item be plugged in and shown to work. Huge country. Items produced usually without on site quality control often go in a container, are shipped off, and what is the receiver to do when many are sub-par? Now finding out who has a buyers agent on site for what product is probably near impossible. So buyer beware. And be prepared to either live with a product, or willing to eat the shipping cost to return it. Wasn't so long ago in the US mail order was hit and miss.

Just my observations and $.02 on any product produced in China. They have a space station for Pete's sake. So quality work is being done. But I'm also sure there is QC on those items.
P.S. I have a brother who routinely went to Taiwan to check on chips being made there. Honestly had forgotten that <rolls eyes at self>.

Ron

 

[Boswell]

I have been very happy with my Grizzly tools and my PM mill and would readily purchase from either company again. My thoughts are that if a US based company is providing the warranty and putting their long term reputation on the line, then it is in their best interest to ensure that the machines made on their behalf are at a reasonable quality level. I personally don't care if my machine tools are around in 100 years. They might be, they might not be, but I will be long gone.

 

[Sergio OB]

Después de una experiencia realmente mala con una máquina Vevor, pensé que valdría la pena iniciar una discusión sobre cómo otros maquinistas aficionados calificarían las diversas cualidades de la máquina importada. Mi suposición subyacente es que solo hay un número limitado de proveedores de piezas forjadas en China y todos los diferentes fabricantes se abastecen de los mismos proveedores de piezas forjadas, pero luego difieren significativamente en la calidad del mecanizado, los componentes y el control de calidad. Ser propietario de varias máquinas de importación diferentes y evaluar su calidad de construcción, mi clasificación de calidad personal / muy subjetiva sería la que se detalla a continuación. Sin embargo, esperando comentarios / clasificaciones alternativas de la comunidad, podría ser un tema controvertido. La clasificación con el número más bajo indica la mayor calidad asumida según la evaluación subjetiva personal.
1. Precision Matthews (no realmente chino, más procedente de Taiwán)
2. JET
3. Comprar zorro
4. Grizzly (parece hacer un esfuerzo adicional para proporcionar manuales adecuados)
5. Bailey
6. Encó
7. Klutch
8. MIÉRCOLES
9..Carga Portuaria / Maquinaria Central
99. Vevor

Honestamente, Vevor ocupa absolutamente el último lugar. Partes mal maquinadas, roscas no completamente roscadas, bordes ásperos, malas soldaduras, manual faltante, etc. Solo algunos componentes ensamblados sin ningún control de calidad. Considérelo un kit que requiere un mecanizado sustancial para que funcione. Su política de devolución no se cumple de inmediato, primero intentan ofrecer reembolsos parciales y esperan que se quede con la chatarra, solo consulte BBB.
Mirando hacia adelante a su experiencia / clasificaciones.

Sieg Machines are very very good in quality and finish, They from Taiwan. https://www.siegind.com/

 

[MERLIncMan]

When I did my Tool&Die apprenticeship, it was a bit of a laugh - I am certain most of you already know this.

Same dies, same machines, same materials - only the brand-name was different. I spent many sparks on coiners, shears, and whatnot that made screwdrivers that you've bought (if you bought one at the time, there is a real non-zero possibility that I did the die that made your flat-head or torx).

In many cases this has become obvious, but in others there is still enough paint and decals to hide the reality.
While there are some things that are bona-fide USA made or Swiss made - I would dare say that most everything sold from ridiculously high-end to discount bin at Harbor Freight is made by the same people in the same factory, on the same machines.

I'd hope that everyone had discovered this, but Central Machinery and Grizzly (and some others that I can't remember) are effectively identical.
... and they're probably made by Vevor.

Y'all know that there's only like 3 tool companies on the planet right?

 

[ErichKeane]

When I did my Tool&Die apprenticeship, it was a bit of a laugh - I am certain most of you already know this.

Same dies, same machines, same materials - only the brand-name was different. I spent many sparks on coiners, shears, and whatnot that made screwdrivers that you've bought (if you bought one at the time, there is a real non-zero possibility that I did the die that made your flat-head or torx).

In many cases this has become obvious, but in others there is still enough paint and decals to hide the reality.
While there are some things that are bona-fide USA made or Swiss made - I would dare say that most everything sold from ridiculously high-end to discount bin at Harbor Freight is made by the same people in the same factory, on the same machines.

I'd hope that everyone had discovered this, but Central Machinery and Grizzly (and some others that I can't remember) are effectively identical.
... and they're probably made by Vevor.

Y'all know that there's only like 3 tool companies on the planet right?

The question though is which label gets "pick of the litter" and which put additional work in to make their machines better. All the PM machines I've seen put in the work, all the vevor stuff are obviously factory rejects.

 

[MERLIncMan]

The question though is which label gets "pick of the litter" and which put additional work in to make their machines better. All the PM machines I've seen put in the work, all the vevor stuff are obviously factory rejects.

Yes.

Not all the Vevor though - but I'd venture 80 - 90%. Truth is though, it's been creepy to watch Vevor conquer the machine world. Some areas (say, hydraulics as a bad example) it's becoming difficult to find REASONABLY priced things that aren't Vevor.

I'm not saying that quality isn't worth it, or that at least having a PM QA guy onsite isn't highly preferable, but there is a real danger (much worse than I think is apparent) that Meehanite is meehanite, with or without the name - but we've been paying for the name so long that issues have crept in.

Dewalt comes to mind and breaks my little heart. Used it professionally for years, trusted it, paid a premium for that trust.

They've basically become Bauer - and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they actually are now. I absolutely loath Stanley/Black&Decker but they own... pretty much everything.

I've got a vintage Starrett inside mics that is probably worth more than my pin gage library. Even Starrett though - that hallowed name - I grow suspicious that the name does not mean what it once did at this point. If a Starrett rep disagrees, by all means, send me some goodies to prove me wrong!

For me, the biggest issue (provided the tool actually functions - poorly or otherwise) is the intersect between cost-and-reality. For the price of one high-end benchtop mill, I've built out an entire machine shop. No, it is not super-great, but it is super-good-enough, and it's mine!

But, to reiterate, I am very happy with my PM machines and my Jet T&C grinder.