Can I swap spindles on a plain bearing lathe?

I was told that southbend wants type c oil for spindles. One of the oils is medium and heavy vactra oil which is way oil. That being said due to the bearing condition the oil runs out fast and it seizes up at higher speeds.


South Bend usually calls out "A" oil for the spindle bearings. Thin thin stuff. SAE 10, ISO22 stuff.

It sounds like you're puttng the cart ahead of the horse. Step one needs to be carefully and thoroughly qualifying your original spindle, bearings, and headstock. Find out what's wrong in the runout department with some careful measurements, find out what damage has been done when it seizes at high speed, (that's a significant "event" in the life span of a plain bearing), and why the oil runs out faster than it should in the first place.

In the end, you "could' be right about the parts list, but it's been proven time and tme again, loading up the parts cannon with used parts to solve an unknown problem on an old machine inevitably leads to more problems than it solves. Measurements are cheap and easy. Parts, not so much so.
 
Any chance you took a photo of the bearings when you disassembled the top end?
 
It’s hard to tell from the pictures but you can feel the ridges. They feel more like smooth waves and aren’t sharp but they are there. I think I’m down to .003 or .002 on the from shims. I tried clamping it overnight without shims as someone thought it might remold the shape. I don’t think it would but tried anyway with no change.
 

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Looks like galling on the end of the spindle that corresponds to the deeper gouging on the end of the bearing. Can you feel roughness on the end of the spindle there?
 
THAT'S the evidence I'm talking about before chucking parts...

That indeed does look like it's bound up during it's lifetime. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but looks pretty smooth. If there's evidence otherwise, like dings, scratches, gouges, or metal that's "picked up" from one side to another, that's going to need to be addressed. But that looks to me like it got set up and run too tight at "some" point in it's life. And with that much wear, and still tightening up for you when it's run too fast, without picking up much if any metal transfer- That's painting a picture

Wear like that (Assuming I'm right from the images and there's not metal transfer going on) can be run just fine, you'll have to pay attention for that with first hand eyeballs. The high spots and the low spots are matched though, which means the bearings HAVE TO stay in the same place and orientation. They're matched at this point with the asymmetrical wear pattern.

That surface is going to make it basicaly not possible to measure an actual useful clearance by standard methods. My recommendation would be to start with a coarse and simple test, and simply use a strip of plastigauge. If you can get a green one, that's great, but usually the cheapest way to get it is at a local parts store (four to ten bucks is typical), and they'll have a kit of all three. For something that cheap on the internet, the price gets jacked to cover the shipping (or you're paying shipping), so often the local kit is easiest/cheapest.
These are not "perfect", they're not precision go/no go gauges, and there's usually half a thousandth of an inch worth of uncertainty left on the table for a one thousandth strip, but what that can do is this- It'll follow the contours, it'll measure consistantly, if not dead accurately, across the whole string. It'll reflect the actual clearance through all of the grooves so even if the measurement's off half of a thousandth, you'll know "around" some amount, and you'll know if it's consistent, or has really tight spots. And generally tell the story for you of how this is going together, and if those two worn surfaces are capable of playing nice together.

Given the damage I see, that's the cheapest, easiest, fastest way to qualify/quantify where you're at and point you in the best direction to go in, be that working with the spindle/ bearings you have to make them servicable, and/or trying to match,fit, qualify, verify a used set that is (pretty likely since it's old, not yours and it's used) going to be well worn in to a different lathe, with different tolerances on the machining, etc. (That'll be nice to have the plastigauge for that too, it'll help you get where you need to be far easier than dialing in new/used split bushings from scratch, although that is certainly doable as well). Each option has their own up sides and down sides, and knowing where you're headed will get you going in the right direction for the best possible outcome.
 
THAT'S the evidence I'm talking about before chucking parts...

That indeed does look like it's bound up during it's lifetime. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but looks pretty smooth. If there's evidence otherwise, like dings, scratches, gouges, or metal that's "picked up" from one side to another, that's going to need to be addressed. But that looks to me like it got set up and run too tight at "some" point in it's life. And with that much wear, and still tightening up for you when it's run too fast, without picking up much if any metal transfer- That's painting a picture

Wear like that (Assuming I'm right from the images and there's not metal transfer going on) can be run just fine, you'll have to pay attention for that with first hand eyeballs. The high spots and the low spots are matched though, which means the bearings HAVE TO stay in the same place and orientation. They're matched at this point with the asymmetrical wear pattern.

That surface is going to make it basicaly not possible to measure an actual useful clearance by standard methods. My recommendation would be to start with a coarse and simple test, and simply use a strip of plastigauge. If you can get a green one, that's great, but usually the cheapest way to get it is at a local parts store (four to ten bucks is typical), and they'll have a kit of all three. For something that cheap on the internet, the price gets jacked to cover the shipping (or you're paying shipping), so often the local kit is easiest/cheapest.
These are not "perfect", they're not precision go/no go gauges, and there's usually half a thousandth of an inch worth of uncertainty left on the table for a one thousandth strip, but what that can do is this- It'll follow the contours, it'll measure consistantly, if not dead accurately, across the whole string. It'll reflect the actual clearance through all of the grooves so even if the measurement's off half of a thousandth, you'll know "around" some amount, and you'll know if it's consistent, or has really tight spots. And generally tell the story for you of how this is going together, and if those two worn surfaces are capable of playing nice together.

Given the damage I see, that's the cheapest, easiest, fastest way to qualify/quantify where you're at and point you in the best direction to go in, be that working with the spindle/ bearings you have to make them servicable, and/or trying to match,fit, qualify, verify a used set that is (pretty likely since it's old, not yours and it's used) going to be well worn in to a different lathe, with different tolerances on the machining, etc. (That'll be nice to have the plastigauge for that too, it'll help you get where you need to be far easier than dialing in new/used split bushings from scratch, although that is certainly doable as well). Each option has their own up sides and down sides, and knowing where you're headed will get you going in the right direction for the best possible outcome.
Both of those parts are what I was talking about “chucking” At it. The question was ‘if’ I did that could I just drop them in or are the bronze bearings bored to the headstock.
 
s-l1600.jpg
Still pondering whether I want to swap spindles. I confirmed that the spindle for sale is the same. These are the bearings. They look really good to me but I dont know what they should look like. I figure the fact that there is scraping marks and no rotational marks is a good thing. Whats your thoughts on these bearings? I dont get to feel this stuff in person but I have been reassured that the spindle is smooth, I am sure I can open a case with the seller and work it out or send back if an issue is present. Also these ones have oil paths, mine dont. I dont have a reason to think that they were remade but I would think an oil path would be really beneficial. On these sheldons you oil from the top and the felt is at the bottom.
 
Well, considering what a new lathe costs if you can make yours run better for a reasonable investment I'd say go for it. Your bearings don't look bad to me, this isn't a high speed operation.

How much does the seller want for the spindle in question? Do they have "make an offer"

Seems like you'll know pretty quick if it improves things.

John
 
$275 shipped for the spindle and bearings. May spindle and bearings don’t look bad but they feel bad. Those bearings pictured are the ones that would come with the spindle. My lathe can’t run in high gear for longer than a couple minutes before it wants to seize up. Loosening the bolts helps but the bearings still get really hot as the oil pours out. It’s weird that mine don’t have the oil grooves that these do. They seem like a fundamental part.
 
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