Another 1440GT 3ph question(s)

Mcdavis86

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Good afternoon, I just bought a 1440GT 3 PH

I would really prefer to just use a RPC but unfortunately once you get past the 5hp size RPC they really get spendy, does anyone run their 3hp lathes off a 5hp RPC? I know it’s close.

I really don’t want to run a VFD, I just got through putting one on my mill, it was fairly easy but It was just coming out with three phase to my motor, then wiring drum switch to VFD and a breaking resistor(that I probably didn’t need but it was only 40 bucks). I am sure with all the documentation I can figure it out but I really want to just make chips.
With that being said, can anyone link the latest revision of the 1440 vfd install? Also is there a BOM for an inside the headstock install?
 
An RPC should work, typically they recommend an idler 2X the largest motor (so 7.5Hp), but a 5Hp should work. You can also buy the control box and find an idler locally and save money. A VFD would be around the same cost, a few more functions if you wanted to go that route. These days I recommend either the Automation Direct GS20 VFD's as the least inexpensive mainstream VFD or the Yaskawa GA 500 which is bit more toward the industrial quality VFD. There is a previous post on what I call the basic VFD conversion pn the 1440GT, the contactors switch the VFD inputs. You also might be able to fit an auxiliary contact block to the contactors which requires no rewiring of the control system other than connecting the motor directly to the VFD. I do not know if there is enough height in the control box to add an auxiliary contact, but they just snap in an use the NO contact to trigger the VFD inputs. I can provide parameters sets for the GS20 and GA500 VFD's if needed. Lots of posts on mounting the VFD in the headstock, I typically also do this on my full builds. Basically you need the VFD, a power disconnect, a braking resistor, a dual pole brake switch to replace the single pole. This is all outlined in the 1440GT basic VFD install. Full system replacements are doable but more expensive and technically challenging if not experienced.
CUA-422 Teco Auxiliary Contact 2A2B 2 Normally Open & 2 Normally Close
 
An RPC should work, typically they recommend an idler 2X the largest motor (so 7.5Hp), but a 5Hp should work. You can also buy the control box and find an idler locally and save money. A VFD would be around the same cost, a few more functions if you wanted to go that route. These days I recommend either the Automation Direct GS20 VFD's as the least inexpensive mainstream VFD or the Yaskawa GA 500 which is bit more toward the industrial quality VFD. There is a previous post on what I call the basic VFD conversion pn the 1440GT, the contactors switch the VFD inputs. You also might be able to fit an auxiliary contact block to the contactors which requires no rewiring of the control system other than connecting the motor directly to the VFD. I do not know if there is enough height in the control box to add an auxiliary contact, but they just snap in an use the NO contact to trigger the VFD inputs. I can provide parameters sets for the GS20 and GA500 VFD's if needed. Lots of posts on mounting the VFD in the headstock, I typically also do this on my full builds. Basically you need the VFD, a power disconnect, a braking resistor, a dual pole brake switch to replace the single pole. This is all outlined in the 1440GT basic VFD install. Full system replacements are doable but more expensive and technically challenging if not experienced.
CUA-422 Teco Auxiliary Contact 2A2B 2 Normally Open & 2 Normally Close
That actually sounds like something I can handle I’m going to look at that. I was toying with the idea when I was looking at getting the 1340, just so I could have a POT and get slower(like I said earlier though with the 1440, I think I can work within the speeds I got, so I’d like to leave panel as virgin as possible) so I can do this, I’d just rather not.

I have the GS drive on my Lagun mill and they were really good about helping me when I called in on a few of the parameters. I was leaning more towards the hitachi just for the simple fact that I you had a parameter walkthrough but probably just go AD again if you have parameters.

I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to provide those part numbers for me! I’ll probably bug you again before it’s over with if I decide to go VFD route.
 
If you decide to go the VFD route I can supply you with the parameters for the different VFDs mentioned, and provide you with some guidance if needed. No problem with helping, there are lots of experienced people in the forum that help others. We all started out a bit green, and learned along the way.

Two things that I would recommend if you install a VFD, one is a speed pot, because you will find that there is often a sweet spot on turning and drilling, doing it dynamically you can hear and see the difference when adjusting the speed pot. On the 1440GT, I add a small metal enclosure with a tachometer and potentiometer that typically mounts under a DRO or elsewhere. It is helpful to know the actual spindle speed when adjusting the speed. Some people opt. for a toggle JOG, although I install them on systems, on my lathe I only occasionally use it. Mostly for checking the engagement of the gears before engaging full speed, and occasionally for power tapping. Once again the GS20 and GA500 are easier to setup for this as they have separate inputs for the jog forward and jog reverse. The VFD braking is a strong point, it is fast controlled braking, once setup it is more predictable than a foot brake. I have a manual foot brake on my lathe and only use it to hold the chuck when manually tapping. You can get consistent 1-2 second braking times with a VFD on the 1440GT, this requires an external braking resistor. The VFD and braking resistor both can be mounted in the headstock cabinet. I can recommend components if you go that route.

Alternative as mentioned would be to by an RPC control box and get a nice idler locally, if you going that route I would suggest going with a 7.5Hp idler if you can find one locally, would be less expensive then a factory build.

Below is a Yaskawa GA50UB012ABA in a recent 1440GT system, they seem to perform a bit better than the WJ200 with regard to the 1440GT motor tuning. They are a bit larger than the WJ200, I mount the VFD to an aluminum back plate with two screw slots on either side to make mounting easier in the headstock cabinet after it is all wired up. I do all the programming via the software and a USB cable.
1734413738191.jpeg


1734414151813.png

A few
 
I recently bought a 1440GT 3phase as well.....since I only have single phase to my shop, I went with the VFD....I can't think Mark enough for his help in the project!!!!!!!!! I would have never gotten it done without him, so thank you Mark for all you've done.
 
With that being said, can anyone link the latest revision of the 1440 vfd install? Also is there a BOM for an inside the headstock install?
I am not for sure what you mean by an "inside the headstock install," but let me assume that you mean inside the original lathe cabinet where the current control relays etc are installed. I did not want to add an additional cabinet to hold a VFD etc.

I did just this and documented the installation and all of the parts. Have you seen my posting? If not you can find it here.
VFD conversion using solid state electronic components.
The document you might want is the fifth attachment of the first posting (far right on the screen) and the title of it starts out as "PM 1440GT Part 2 VFDDescript...." This installation essentially included all of the bells and whistles I could think of at the time. I even added a few things that most people do not even use like a revolution counter. So one can just leave these out if they do not want them. Anyway, lots of folks have downloaded this document, but I am not for sure how many folks have used it. I built a solid state logic control to eliminate most all of the big relays etc. (To sort of quote @ptrotter, ... what the heck, why would I need all of these big non-modern electronic relays etc if I am installing a solid state VFD anyway.) That saves more than enough space to allow me to get everything in the back of the lathe stand, where the original controls were located, and the front switch control panel , including a braking resistor of my own construction. I used the Hitachi VFD that Mark was recommending at the time and its installation and operation went smoothly. The document even encludes the VFD programing I used. It has been working without any problems for a long time now.

Even though I tried to explain, in detail, how the electronics function, for many folks building the electronics by point to point soldering probably is a discouraging thought. So if you do not have electronics skill this maybe a turn off. I know that, while he was also implementing an ELS , @ptrotter took my design and modified the layout etc. to run his PM1340 .

I have been working on the Clough42 ELS on my PM-1340GT lathe and decided that if I am going to be using solid state electronics for the lead screw, than I might as well build solid state controls for the spindle. After all the VFD is a solid state device itself. Here is what I have so far:

Since doing the project I did spend time laying out my electronics in a pcb and even though it had a wire routing error a little soldering fix it and it worked for @bdstark .
Very nice - I just ran through testing the PCB myself. The VFD simulator board is a great addition and very helpful. I have been hanging resistors and LEDs off the connectors and was thinking of making a similar board.

Since I am still interested in this and might still replace my point to point soldered board with a pcb, I would be willing to re-layout the pcb board, have it made, and ship you one if you wanted to try my install. I am sure this would make it much easier. I might even having the pcb manufacturer install the electronic components (transistors, resistors, etc.) This way one would just have to install the board, VFD, etc. on a backer plate like I described and connect the wires . Getting these boards made is very inexpensive, so cost is not an issue. Also, the board componets are essentially free. The last time I did it I got 5 boards shipped to me for less than $30. By the way, at the back of the document write up I did list all of the components/parts and sources that I used and while the internet links I provided are probably broken by now, finding the parts should not be a problem since for the most part they are very common.

Are you interested in doing this? Anyone else?

PS. I only offer to do this to help folks out. I am retired and get some joy out of solving problems and helping others out. For me, this is indeed a hobby.

Dave L.
 
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