Tap and die recommendations?

DavidR8 said:
As @francist said we live in an industrial no-mans-land.

Slight diversion: what is the significance of the machines lines on these seemingly identical taps?
4618423d871b3b9941493a7655a72237.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You have a taper tap, a std tap, and a bottoming tap.
The lines are to allow you to chose the tap you want easier.
 
Apprentices were required to purchase our tools back in the 70s . I had absolutely no issue buying any kind of tooling if it saved me time back when my shop was up and running . I looked at it as a write off . Fast forward 25 years , my machining duties are very limited at work and nearly none at home . I'll always keep a Bridgeport and some kind of lathe around and some basic tooling , but I will say at this point I'm still fully tooled up . :grin:

My current position is more of a mechanical position these days . I still use the machines for 1 offs and repairing dies , but really not making parts much any longer . All my precision tools sit un-used . :(
 
As a point of reference the 2 most common styles of taps are the spiral flute and the spiral point.

The spiral flute style is used most commonly in blind holes because the flute configuration forces the chips back out the entrance hole. This allows the tap to go to the bottom of the hole without packing chips in the bottom.

The spiral point or "gun tap" is most commonly used for through holes. The point configuration forces the chips out the bottom of the hole allowing the tap to go freely through the material without loading the flutes.

Personally most of my tapping is done by machine. It's my opinion that the best taps for general use are the HSS spiral point style. While the spiral flute style does work equally well when new, the smaller web is a concern for breakage as they wear.

I realize there are a number of used tap and die sets available on both Craigslist and eBay. The prices are tempting, especially when compared to the cost of new HSS sets. However this is one tool I wouldn't buy used without close personal inspection. Most sellers are cleaning out Grampa's shop and have no idea the condition of the tooling they are selling. It's not uncommon for taps and dies to get dull and eventually chipped over time. Unless the seller does an extremely close inspection it's very likely they will not notice defects that will cause problems. Grampa may have saved the old damaged taps and dies for an emergency, or to clean up existing threads. I often save damaged taps and dies to use as thread chasers. While they may not cut a new thread, they can often be used for cleaning and repairing existing threads.

Most of my taps & dies are Triumph, Greenfield, (WIDA), and Beloit Regal. They are all HSS, and primarily sold to the industrial/commercial sector. They are not the cheapest on the market, but they are quality tools that should last many years in a hobby environment. At work our primary brand was Triumph for drills, taps, and dies. Since then they have been bought out by Minnesota Twist Drill.

There was a discussion about tap & die longevity on the Practical Machinist bulletin board last year. One of the commercial shops was lamenting the poor performance and longevity of less expensive (poorer quality) taps. They eventually changed vendors and started purchasing WIDA, OSG and similar quality. The end result was that the Quality brands were able to produce over 3 times as many quality threaded holes and shafts ( less than 300 with poorer quality taps & dies as opposed to over 1000 with higher quality tooling) as the less expensive (poorer quality) brands

As a confession I do own a set of Hanson "High Carbon" dies. They were purchased a couple years ago for field work on some construction equipment. I was tired of dropping and loosing expensive dies in the mud and crud. These dies are only used where loss or breakage is a distinct possibility.
 
You sure can't go wrong with OSGs . Expensive but well worth the $$$ . :encourage:
 
So remember in your first couple posts where people said don't worry too much about the cost of the lathe because you will spend much more on tooling?

Pretty much everything is going to work like this, you can pick up a cheap set or individual what evers, (drill bits, taps, reamers, end mills, boring bars) you name it, or you buy very good quality at a higher, often much, much higher price. Taking a quick look at just one vendor HSS taps cost 4-5x as much as plain carbon steel from the same manufacturer. What materials you are going to be working with, and how much work you have for an item will play a huge part in what is acceptable.

When you are just getting started out you are going to want a lot of things because you are just starting out and you basically need everything. Where you choose to go cheap, and where you go all in really depends on A your budget, and B what you are going to be doing. If you expect a lot of work for your taps and dies, then go for a good set. If it is mostly just to have for an occasional project then maybe a place to save some money to put into tooling that will get a lot more use.
 
Last edited:
buy what you need as you need them and get a spiral point and spiral flute version. Both are useful - the spiral point is more robust (super important for 6-32 taps), but the spiral flute is really useful for blind holes. I just buy bottoming taps as I almost always start the tap in the mill/ drill press/ lathe.

I use dies much less frequently, so I've been getting by with an old HF set plus whatever USA dies I find at garage sales. If there's a thread you'll do alot of, spending the extra on an adjustable HSS die would be worth it. If it's just an occasional one off, a larger but cheaper set would be more useful.
 
Aaron_W said:
So remember in your first couple posts where people said don't worry too much about the cost of the lathe because you will spend much more on tooling?

Pretty much everything is going to work like this, you can pick up a cheap set or individual what evers, (drill bits, taps, reamers, end mills, boring bars) you name it, or you buy very good quality at a higher, often much, much higher price. Taking a quick look at just one vendor HSS taps cost 4-5x as much as plain carbon steel from the same manufacturer. What materials you are going to be working with, and how much work you have for an item will play a huge part in what is acceptable.

When you are just getting started out you are going to want a lot of things because you are just starting out and you basically need everything. Where you choose to go cheap, and where you go all in really depends on A your budget, and B what you are going to be doing. If you expect a lot of work for your taps and dies, then go for a good set. If it is mostly just to have for an occasional project then maybe a place to save some money to put into tooling that will get a lot more use.
Click to expand...

Many years back I did buy a couple "sets" of taps & dies". Those were in the days that most of my work was repairing existing machinery, not fabricating new. When I got into the fabrication business I purchased the most common sizes I needed by the box. Often times they were inexpensive enough, or there were incentives sufficient to warranty purchasing several boxes of the same size.

When I retired I had a more than adequate selection of taps and dies to last several years. Those "several years" have long passed and the supply was running thin. Last year I was "forced" to replenish several sizes. Needless to say I was suffering from "sticker shock". Spiral point Taps I'd been buying for a dollar or less per unit were now going for over $7.00 a copy. The spiral flute types I was buying for around $2.50 a copy are now at least $10.00 per copy, and more depending on the coating. That's when I started looking at the "per hole" cost.

Using the information supplied by the discussion I referred to earlier I have come to the conclusion that depending on the expected usage of the tap, in many cases it's actually less expensive to purchase the higher quality, more expensive tap. That is to say If I intend to use the tap a limited number of times (for instance a 9/16-18 left hand thread) I will purchase a carbon steel tap. If the tap is intended to be used on a regular basis, and thread more than 300 holes (3/8-16 right hand thread) a high quality HSS tap can be justified.

Another thing to mention is that all taps are not created equal as far as thread cutting diameter is concerned. Taps are ground to a specific tolerance, most commonly from H1 to H7. The H1 tap is .0005" larger than the basic thread of the mating fastener. Each number larger increases the clearance by another .0005". Following that logic the H6 thread is .003" larger than the mating fastener. The most commonly used size for general fasteners is H3.
 
My understanding is that solid dies are for thread chasing. Not good for threading.

I always use an adjustable die. in an adjustable handle.

Taps... Buy what you need and get the good stuff.
HSS is good.

Not much will tick you off more that a dull tap or die.

I usually only buy small tap and dies.
More taps than dies.

I can external thread OK but don't like internal threading.

Drill and tap a hole and use it for the sample.

Dale
 
One extra thing I've found using spiral point taps by hand is that they seem to draw themselves into the hole straighter.
Maybe its me but that seems to be the case when I use them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top