Saw Stop table saw

Well, up front I must state that everything I have to say will be negative. I am 71 and still have all my fingers.(and toes) Although I am professionally an electrical man, I have done some pretty serious hobby work and a few odd jobs that involved a saw of one type or another. Over the years, I have owned several table saws, (job site saws) a couple or three radial saws, uncountable handheld circular saws, a couple of portable band saws, and several low end stationary band saws. Most of the above tools were low end tools, purchased for a particular job and then used as needed for a few more, then scrapped or given away. The point being thay I have used power saws from childhood, literally at the age of 8 or 10, and still have all my fingers.

Safety is in the mind, paying attention to the job and what you are doing. No interruptions, no loud music, no children, no booze, just the work. Any external safety device such as a "Saw Stop" allows you to become complacent with an inherently dangerous machine. Essentially consider if you would put such a contraption on your lathe. Stopping the machine in less than one revolution when your necktie gets tangled up in the work. Like riding a bicycle as opposed to a tricycle. Even with a hammer, you hit your thumb once and then avoid any future situation that puts your thumb at risk.

A Saw Stop mechanism is available for retrofit on older saws. When it activates, it does stop the blade within a very few teeth. To the detriment of the saw blade, the spindle, the bearings, and sometimes the entire saw assembly. (cracked frame, etc) All because someone is so stupid as to push a board through with his(or her) hand. That's why God made push sticks, to keep your fingers intact. When someone loses a finger, or a hand, to a saw, it usually can be attributed to a stupid move. Even a genius such as (E=MC^2) can make a stupid move. Most times they get away with it, some times it bites. Someone that religously follows safety procedures is not stupid, they are safety concious. There are no short cuts with power saws. Just stupid people making more money for some nameless corporation.

I'm sorry, I am waxing political again. Safety cannot be legislated, it must be in the mind. I have ridden a motorcycle, at highway speed, side saddle. But there was no one around on an open road, in eastern Colorado I think. I survived not through luck, but by paying attention to what I was doing. I have climbed on a crane mast over water in freezing (65 s latitude) weather because my crewmates were hanging in a boat being brought aboard and a limit switch was stuck. The controls were behind a bolted (weather proof) steel cover. While the electricians were still working to remove the cover, I climbed the mast and helped my friends out of rough water. But had no problems because I was paying attention to what I was doing.

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Aaron_W said:
That is the general consensus I've gotten from woodworking forums. Good saw but you are paying a lot for the added safety.
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do remember that there are a lot of haters. People hated the fact that Gass tried pushing his technology to the manufacturers and then tried going to congress to mandate it. So there's a lot of bias in that. Too much.. because it's a good saw, and their bias has nothing to do with the saw, and they will bad mouth it as if they know.
 
Bi11Hudson said:
Well, up front I must state that everything I have to say will be negative. I am 71 and still have all my fingers.(and toes) Although I am professionally an electrical man, I have done some pretty serious hobby work and a few odd jobs that involved a saw of one type or another. Over the years, I have owned several table saws, (job site saws) a couple or three radial saws, uncountable handheld circular saws, a couple of portable band saws, and several low end stationary band saws. Most of the above tools were low end tools, purchased for a particular job and then used as needed for a few more, then scrapped or given away. The point being thay I have used power saws from childhood, literally at the age of 8 or 10, and still have all my fingers.

Safety is in the mind, paying attention to the job and what you are doing. No interruptions, no loud music, no children, no booze, just the work. Any external safety device such as a "Saw Stop" allows you to become complacent with an inherently dangerous machine. Essentially consider if you would put such a contraption on your lathe. Stopping the machine in less than one revolution when your necktie gets tangled up in the work. Like riding a bicycle as opposed to a tricycle. Even with a hammer, you hit your thumb once and then avoid any future situation that puts your thumb at risk.

A Saw Stop mechanism is available for retrofit on older saws. When it activates, it does stop the blade within a very few teeth. To the detriment of the saw blade, the spindle, the bearings, and sometimes the entire saw assembly. (cracked frame, etc) All because someone is so stupid as to push a board through with his(or her) hand. That's why God made push sticks, to keep your fingers intact. When someone loses a finger, or a hand, to a saw, it usually can be attributed to a stupid move. Even a genius such as (E=MC^2) can make a stupid move. Most times they get away with it, some times it bites. Someone that religously follows safety procedures is not stupid, they are safety concious. There are no short cuts with power saws. Just stupid people making more money for some nameless corporation.

I'm sorry, I am waxing political again. Safety cannot be legislated, it must be in the mind. I have ridden a motorcycle, at highway speed, side saddle. But there was no one around on an open road, in eastern Colorado I think. I survived not through luck, but by paying attention to what I was doing. I have climbed on a crane mast over water in freezing (65 s latitude) weather because my crewmates were hanging in a boat being brought aboard and a limit switch was stuck. The controls were behind a bolted (weather proof) steel cover. While the electricians were still working to remove the cover, I climbed the mast and helped my friends out of rough water. But had no problems because I was paying attention to what I was doing.

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sorry Bill, gotta disagree with you on this one. You can be as safe as the OSHA specs.. and still lose a finger. A guy I play volleyball with has been a fine wood worker for years. He lost fingers to a saw a few years ago. as they say Stuff happens.

Legislation is not necessary, but this tech should be available to those that want it. And when you think about the cost, it's not that much. You look at Unisarus prices lately on the used market. Most times way above their new price.
 
woodchucker said:
Legislation is not necessary, but this tech should be available to those that want it. And when you think about the cost, it's not that much. You look at Unisarus prices lately on the used market. Most times way above their new price.
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Perhaps we should agree to disagree. I will not dispute your position on the matter. I simply state my position and you can take it or leave it. That works both ways, you state your position. I consider my own experiences and then take it or leave it.

My time in the military and my time in the foundry predate OSHA. As far as I'm concerned, OSHA is just another government "make work" organization of the '60s to protect stupid people. I have seen industrial accidents that could not have been avoided. But they could have been by placing qualified men in jobs where someone else wouldn't pay the price for their stupidity. A spilled ladle of iron cost a man his feet. From the perspective of the man on the ground, it was unavoidable. From the perspective of the man in the crane, he was distracted when his time came to transfer a ladle and interrupted his reading the newspaper.

When a contraption such as Saw Stop comes available, it should be available to retrofit most any saw. At the saw owners discretion. But to file a lawsuit because a particular saw was manufactured before Saw Stop was invented and a man lost his hand because the saw didn't have the modern technology of that sort of safety smells a little too much like somebody too stupid or lazy trying to get a free ride.

I don't have a link for the article, I copied it to my hard drive and stashed it. But the incident actually took place. And he supposedly won compensation because he was injured by having his hand too close to the blade. Any saw, power or otherwise, is a dangerous tool. Face it, wood is tougher than flesh. Bone may be tougher but the flesh sure isn't. If you are scared of a saw, by all means don't use one. And if you're not scared of a saw, keep it away from me. I have been afraid of saws since before I started school.

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Wondering what are the extra safety features on this saw ?
 
mmcmdl said:
Wondering what are the extra safety features on this saw ?
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The SawStop is the hotdog saw, the one that stops and immediately retracts the blade if it detects it touches your skin.

IMO, the tech is great, and definitely worth the cost. The inventors initial strategy was dumb/harmful.

Most of us know a woodworker or machinist who got complacent at one point or another and paid the price. The SawStop shouldn't make you MORE complacent (if it does, you were going to lose a finger anyway), but it makes the penalty way less for a moment of brain fart.
 
we are not that far off on many thoughts, some.
A retrofit is not possible because of the design. There is a different competing design that requires a guard above the blade and uses lights, but I don't use a guard. I am measuring or putting a rabbet on a piece, that guard would be in the way, and blocks the blade.. so it's not a great retrofit in my opinion, and that was probably 15 years ago I saw it... I don't think it went anywhere.

It has nothing to do with qualified , everyone has a moment of distraction.
I am worried about my age. I am less and less sharp. I believe that age is a factor. I would like the SawStop so I don't pay the ultimate price of losing a finger or worse.

Yea there are many people who don't belong in front of a tablesaw, or for that matter any machine, even cars.....
 
I made my first cut on the table saw in 10+ years . :grin: I'm just getting set up with the wood saws and this thread caught my eyes . The radial arm saws are what scares me .
 
mmcmdl said:
Wondering what are the extra safety features on this saw ?
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2 main features.
it uses the same technology as a gfci.

it monitors the blade and table if there is any loss of ground meaning your finger makes a new path, the blade drops and the cartridge fires off stopping the blade. both happen in sub second time. A little knick is all you get.

if you are cutting wet wood you can disable the safety ..
The saw has a straight up and down arbor path, which provides some more accuracy. The riving knife is super nice, the dust collection is awesome.

I do know a lot of cabinet shops have replaced their saws with it, for the safety and insurance factor. I used to talk with a shop owner who loved the saw. He thought it was superior to his PM66.
 
mmcmdl said:
I made my first cut on the table saw in 10+ years . :grin: I'm just getting set up with the wood saws and this thread caught my eyes . The radial arm saws are what scares me .
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when I grew up , my dad bought a radial arm saw. I used it for many years. ripping scared me on it. I became good with it, but it was finicky on hitting 90 and alignment in general if you moved it around a lot. A TS was a big upgrade. Almost lost my hand with the radial. When I bought this house, I bought another radial. I was dadoing with a near 3/4" stack and it really grabbed in more than I could slow it down... it scared the crap out of me.
 
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