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Franz, FYI
1785 – Martinus van Marum's electrostatic generator was used to reduce tin, zinc, and antimony from their salts using electrolysis
Cheers Phil
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Franz, FYI
1785 – Martinus van Marum's electrostatic generator was used to reduce tin, zinc, and antimony from their salts using electrolysis
Cheers Phil
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Ummm, since we are talking to the Canucks shouldn't that be "FREEZES at 0°" (or -1°)? They do use that new fangled metric system thing, hate to confuse anyone. :LOL:
-Ron
I don't have any practical experience with this.
However, if there are any bubbles forming on the electrodes you are forming hydrogen on one electrode. Please observe the same sort of safety precautions you would use in the presence of any flammable gas: keep your work area ventilated, and don't do the work next to any equipment that can produce sparks.
If I was doing this I'd point a fan over the tank, but then I'm easy to scare. If you are doing this on small parts in a shop larger than a tiny closet I do not believe it is possible to accumulate enough hydrogen to be dangerous. That is my guess. I don't do this stuff for a living.
Walt
Thanks for sharing your real-world experience Franz.
I come at this from a different angle, as you have probably figured out. I've never done any chemical rust removal, just the usual chipping and wire wheel treatment. But in school they made us study lots of different topics I've never been able to use. It's fun I can put the pieces together to make sense out of a real life problem. Makes me feel like some of that effort put in when I was young wasn't wasted.
BTW, "chelation" is only a $2 word at best. Using it never made a woman interested in me!
Walt
I come at this from a different angle, as you have probably figured out. I've never done any chemical rust removal, just the usual chipping and wire wheel treatment. But in school they made us study lots of different topics I've never been able to use. It's fun I can put the pieces together to make sense out of a real life problem. Makes me feel like some of that effort put in when I was young wasn't wasted.
BTW, "chelation" is only a $2 word at best. Using it never made a woman interested in me!
Walt
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Mister Ed
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Ya know ... sometimes you read things that just seem hilarious to you ... I just had one of those moments.
But in all seriousness, this was a great discussion with some good info and debate (although at one point seemed to get a little to personal).
I'm typically a phosphoric acid guy (typically Dairy CIP/Milkstone remover). However, on the chelating products like Evaporust ... do the active chealating ingredients get "used up" in the process?
Been a long time since my college chem days so I am a bit foggy on the process ... wait now that I think of ... my college days in general are a bit foggy.
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Considering that Evaporust is clean and handy to use, odorless, and doesn't draw flies, I am quite happy with it. Molasses on the other hand, is sticky, messy, has a definite odor and does draw flies and myriad other insects. I don't think that someone who chooses to use Evaporust should be considered a 'sucker'. You are entitled to your opinion, Franz, but considering that you have NOT TRIED the product, you should probably ease up a bit. The methods you choose to avoid are up to you, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is no need to poo-poo a method or product that you have not yet tried.
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Hello folks, I have no knowledge of the subject to share. However, As a moderator I would like to remind everyone that the other people in this discussion also have feelings. Please lets step back and be more tolerant of other views. Just because someone likes steak doesn't make them mentally challenged even though hotdogs are less expensive and work well.
This is a topic that will be looked at for a long while, because of its interesting nature. Remember like all topics YOUR character will be judged by your words,
Steve
This is a topic that will be looked at for a long while, because of its interesting nature. Remember like all topics YOUR character will be judged by your words,
Steve
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At some point the Evapo-rust gets "used up" but it's re-usable up to a point. From the Evapo-rust website -
You also left out a couple of other factors. Time. I can't wait a few weeks for something to be de-rusted in most situations. With Evapo-rust it's a few hours or overnight at the worst. Clean-up. There is no comparison. Evapo-rust takes a couple of minutes in the sink, with water, to clean up (time is a factor here as well). Maybe hit it with a brush to remove some left over (carbon?) deposits. Either pour the stuff back in it's bottle or wash it down the drain. Quick and easy. Molasses, not so much.
Comparing (criticizing) Evapo-rust to molasses can be compared to using a mill or a file to remove metal. They both remove metal and get the job done but I don't think a person is a "sucker" for using a mill over a file even if the mill costs more. I'd also not criticize someone for using a file if that's what they want to do.
-Ron
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Just my two cents, and experience.
I've used the electrolytic method with distilled water and Baking Soda quite a bit and have been very happy with the result. Especially on files and saw blades the preservation of base metal was amazing. However, when trying it on an old Capenter's Square, containing some brass rivets, the steel did come out with a faint copper patina. Since I wasn't going to paint the rule it actually was a beneficial anomaly. I did have to trash the solution though. Very expensive error, maybe 50 cents.
Phosphoric acid warning: De-rusting with Phosphoric Acid imparts hydrogen into the surface of the metal, making it very brittle. This was proven to me by an old restorer who demonstrated how easily a tie rod end could be snapped after being "Naval Jellied". He also commented that of course it should have been thrown out, not de-rusted, in the first place.
He claims to have seen lots of other stressed structural car parts crack after being "Jellied". I had no reason not to believe him. A thick cast alternator bracket, no big deal, a thin stamped lower control arm, not so much.
Great thread, never heard of the Molasses method. Though, between bugs, rodents and fermentation it sounds like a definite winter method.
)
Mark
I've used the electrolytic method with distilled water and Baking Soda quite a bit and have been very happy with the result. Especially on files and saw blades the preservation of base metal was amazing. However, when trying it on an old Capenter's Square, containing some brass rivets, the steel did come out with a faint copper patina. Since I wasn't going to paint the rule it actually was a beneficial anomaly. I did have to trash the solution though. Very expensive error, maybe 50 cents.
Phosphoric acid warning: De-rusting with Phosphoric Acid imparts hydrogen into the surface of the metal, making it very brittle. This was proven to me by an old restorer who demonstrated how easily a tie rod end could be snapped after being "Naval Jellied". He also commented that of course it should have been thrown out, not de-rusted, in the first place.
He claims to have seen lots of other stressed structural car parts crack after being "Jellied". I had no reason not to believe him. A thick cast alternator bracket, no big deal, a thin stamped lower control arm, not so much.
Great thread, never heard of the Molasses method. Though, between bugs, rodents and fermentation it sounds like a definite winter method.
)Mark