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fradish

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I'm trying to replicate this on my machine. When you see your drop issue, your fine is feed engaged and the quill lock is not engaged? How are you producing the movement and where do you notice it? I did find something similar in the new manual. Do you think this is the same thing?
So the drop I am seeing is when the FF is engaged (#4 is tight, binding #1 to #3) and the quill lock is completely
loose. I don't see it all of the time. The best explanation of what I feel when lowering the quill (only when lowering)
would be if the worm gear was missing a tooth and the quill dropped a small amount. I suppose it could also be
that the quill is catching on the set screw a bit and instead of the quill dropping smoothly it hangs a bit then
drops suddenly. Maybe there is a rough spot on the quill where the set screw rides?
The drop is not a huge amount, but it happens.

What I really need to do is to be much more methodical about characterizing this. I have marked where the
keyway is on the outside of hub #1, so I can raise the quill as high as it will go and record over multiple
tries where I encounter this drop (like the keyway mark is at 3 o'clock on the first revolution of the FF and
9 o'clock on the second.) Having this information might help identify if this seems like a gearing issue or
maybe it is an issue with the set screws...

I just need to find time to do this... :)
 

fradish

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Short answer, it might have just needed grease!

I seem to have either fixed my problem or reduced it to the point
where it is undetectable. I took off the fine feed gear box (not that big of a deal)
just watch the key and spring. There is a snap ring that was a little stiff, but once
that was off the worm gear slid off.

The worm and worm gear both looked pristine.
No broken teeth or burrs. There was however a blob of grease off to the side of
the track in which the worm and gear meshed. I spread that out and added some
more until all of the teeth of the worm gear had a light even coating of grease.

I then greased the bore of the worm gear and the worm itself. I put it back together
and there was still a bit of a drop! It was smoother, but not fixed. Since I had the grease out
I greased the rack on the back of the spindle, a light coating all over the spindle and a little
in the groove where the set screw rides. After working the feed up and down a few times, I could
no longer detect a drop.

Though I'm glad I greased up the worm gear, I don't think that was necessary. I think something
in the spindle was just sticking.
 

Sloth2009

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Short answer, it might have just needed grease!

I seem to have either fixed my problem or reduced it to the point
where it is undetectable. I took off the fine feed gear box (not that big of a deal)
just watch the key and spring. There is a snap ring that was a little stiff, but once
that was off the worm gear slid off.

The worm and worm gear both looked pristine.
No broken teeth or burrs. There was however a blob of grease off to the side of
the track in which the worm and gear meshed. I spread that out and added some
more until all of the teeth of the worm gear had a light even coating of grease.

I then greased the bore of the worm gear and the worm itself. I put it back together
and there was still a bit of a drop! It was smoother, but not fixed. Since I had the grease out
I greased the rack on the back of the spindle, a light coating all over the spindle and a little
in the groove where the set screw rides. After working the feed up and down a few times, I could
no longer detect a drop.

Though I'm glad I greased up the worm gear, I don't think that was necessary. I think something
in the spindle was just sticking.
I think most of the issues we have run across with the quill feed have been related to how the gears from the quill pinion shaft and the gear teeth on the back of the column mesh together. Keeping the set screws tight and sliding smoothly plus keeping the gears clean and lubed seem to be the best answers for us. Glad you solved your issue!
 
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Sloth2009

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I used the mill to hollow out the micarta handle for this little hatchet. I had most of the hatchet finished before I got the mill. If I ever make another one, I will use the mill to slot in the gas shut off wrench on the handle instead of forging it in. A fireman friend asked me to make it for him to take on safety checks.
IMG_5622.JPG IMG_5623.JPG IMG_5625.JPG
 
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Sloth2009

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Got the 5/16" delrin in today. Its a nice sliding fit in the set screw hole and in the column slot. I just made a little plug like I did out of the brass. Its definately a big improvement over the stock set screw. IMG_5630.JPG IMG_5631.JPG IMG_5632.JPG IMG_5633.JPG
 

fradish

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That is so weird, I had thought of making something very much like that for my mill.
I never built it, but what you've built is pretty much what I was thinking of.
I'm a little hesitant to drill into my mill, so I was going to see if I could just
use a bar clamp down from the top. But I always thought having screw adjusters
would be better than tapping with a dead blow.

So, does it make tramming easier and more precise?

Good Job! Looks very professional.
 
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Sloth2009

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That is so weird, I had thought of making something very much like that for my mill.
I never built it, but what you've built is pretty much what I was thinking of.
I'm a little hesitant to drill into my mill, so I was going to see if I could just
use a bar clamp down from the top. But I always though having screw adjusters
would be better than tapping with a dead blow.

So, does it make tramming easier and more precise?

Good Job! Looks very professional.
Thanks! My machine should still be trammed in from the epoxy tram, so I haven't used them yet. From what I've read, these screw style tram aids work very well for fine tuning in the head swing. If you decide to make some be careful on the left side of the head when your drill pilot hole since the gib and gib screws are on that side. I tapped the head 1/4-20 for the mounting bolts and the bracket 3/8-16 for the set screw.
 
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Sloth2009

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Made a Japanese style forging hammer hardened to about 50 RWC. Its for me so didn't try to make it too pretty. IMG_5673.JPG IMG_5674.JPG
 

Sloth2009

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My x-axis power feed came in today from PM. It is a ALSGS ALB-310s and specs to 450 inch lbs. It was $295 shipped from PM. You can find it cheaper elsewhere, but I wanted to by from them for their customer service. These power feeds install horizontally on the PM-727m which is a bit awkward because it takes up more floorspace. I haven't seen one that sits vertically on this type of mill, but there may be one out there. Some of you may want to see what installation entails. I will post a few more pics when get some time to put it on. IMG_5735.JPG
 

TheGov

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That's one nice power feed. At times, after cranking, Ive been tempted to even hook up a cordless drill just to give the arms a rest.

After reading about the delrin, had to dig through the moving boxes and found a stick. Once I get some time I'll have to impliment it.
 

Sloth2009

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The directions that came with the new power feed are the usual lost in translation Chinese variety, so expect a bit of head scratching. The installation wasn't hard, but there are a few things of note.

The motor mounting bracket comes in two parts. One that clamps to the table with 2 bolts and one that mounts on the motor housing with 2 bolts. They are also joined together by 2 more bolts. The different bolts allow adjustability in how the motor pinion gear and the bevel gear that installs on the x-axis mesh up. It may take some fine tuning to get the gears running smooth.

You will need to get 2 mounting bolts then drill and tap holes to mount the limit switch. The little T-slot nuts that anchor the switch stops are slightly too big for the PM-727m and need sanded or filed down a bit. Also I find the stops snag up on my "upgraded" locking knobs, so I may have to go back to the original levers.

I do wish the power led was brighter as it is really hard to see. Otherwise I'm happy with how the how the power feed works. The speed control and transmission lever work great. Now I just need to use it to make some chips.

IMG_5738.JPG IMG_5741.JPG IMG_5747.JPG IMG_5748.JPG IMG_5754.JPG IMG_5755.JPG IMG_5757.JPG
IMG_5760.JPG IMG_5759.JPG
 
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Sloth2009

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My thought too. Without thinking about it, I thought it was an LED also but it's actually a neon bulb. You can always do what I did (or similar). Post 65 .


Nice! I have built Led drivers before but its been quite some time. If it annoys me enough, I will follow your lead and upgrade the light.:applause 2:
 

Lefty Turner

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Squaring off the sawed edges of some 4140 for a project.
Nice job on the install for the power feed. Is the ball oiler on the left end of your x-axis lead screw now inaccessible for oiling the support bearing. Looks like it could be a challenge. Just curious.

Lefty
 

Sloth2009

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Nice job on the install for the power feed. Is the ball oiler on the left end of your x-axis lead screw now inaccessible for oiling the support bearing. Looks like it could be a challenge. Just curious.

Lefty
Yes it does get covered. You can remove the power feed off the table fairly easily by losening 2 bolts. I would have to look at it closer, but I suppose you could look at drilling an access hole in the mounting bracket so the feed could be kept in place.
 

Sloth2009

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Been busy for a few weeks and haven't done much milling. Today I made a "screwy ball" out of a 1" ball bearing. I saw a few videos online where people used them to help hold non-square workpieces up against the fixed jaw. I just got this little machinist vise and used it and some nuts for the setup. I ground a flat in the ball with my belt sander to save some time and then made some passes with my carbide face mill. It turned out pretty nice.
IMG_5998.JPG IMG_6003.JPG IMG_6004.JPG IMG_6005.JPG IMG_6011.JPG
 
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Sloth2009

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This is the most complicated machining I have done so far. It is a part I designed and built for my knife grinder. It has 22 holes, some are threaded, 14 of them are counterbored for hex bolts. There is an adapter plate between 2 roller bearing blocks, and the top work surface. The work surface has an adjustable stop at one end. Now I need to do some testing to see if anything needs to be changed. IMG_6057.JPG IMG_6063.JPG IMG_6065.JPG IMG_6068.JPG
 

Sloth2009

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Been watching a lot of Stefan Gotteswinter's youtube channel lately. On smaller workpieces he uses a copper drift to set the piece in the milling vise instead of a hammer. I decided to order a piece of 3/4" copper off of Ebay and make one for myself. I made one piece into a drift like he uses and installed a small handle in another to make a small hammer. I will see how I like them. IMG_6164.JPG IMG_6168.JPG
 

9t8z28

Steel
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I have an X2 mill with solid column and I get movement when pushing or pulling on the column. I thought this flex would not exist on the PM but I guess some is going to be expected. The PM spindle head is very heavy and to overcome any flex would require a much larger column and mounting surface. How hard are you pulling or pushing on the column ? Can you get movement by using two fingers lightly pressing or your entire hand is pulling down or pushing ?
 

Sloth2009

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I have an X2 mill with solid column and I get movement when pushing or pulling on the column. I thought this flex would not exist on the PM but I guess some is going to be expected. The PM spindle head is very heavy and to overcome any flex would require a much larger column and mounting surface. How hard are you pulling or pushing on the column ? Can you get movement by using two fingers lightly pressing or your entire hand is pulling down or pushing ?
I was pulling and pushing fairly hard. Probably over 80lbs of force. Matt from PM said he has seen this in very large mills as well. I am now of the mind that flex of the column in the y direction probably is not that critical. I don't think side milling should apply a lot of force in that direction. Drilling or plunging may but often don't need to be as accurate. I have never measured the flex of my column in the x direction, but I think that would make a bigger difference in milling accuracy. BTW There are several good writeups on reinforcing your specific mill. I think this mill might be an x2...
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grizzly-g0619-column-stiffening.57540/
 
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9t8z28

Steel
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I was pulling and pushing fairly hard. Probably over 80lbs of force. Matt from PM said he has seen this in very large mills as well. I am now of the mind that flex of the column in the y direction probably is not that critical. I don't think side milling should apply a lot of force in that direction. Drilling or plunging may but often don't need to be as accurate. I have never measured the flex of my column in the x direction, but I think that would make a bigger difference in milling accuracy. BTW There are several good writeups on reinforcing your specific mill. I think this mill might be an x2...
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grizzly-g0619-column-stiffening.57540/
Thats not the same machine at all. I think its a grade above mine but thank you. My machine has an hollow rectangular boxed column with a 2" riser block to give me 13" between the spindle and table. The column mounts to the base in the same fashion as your PM-727. It flexes about .002-.003" with light pressure from 2 fingers. If I yank on it real hard it will probably cut .010" ! but I can still side mill and plunge mill on mild steel but at low doc.
 

BFHammer

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Been watching a lot of Stefan Gotteswinter's youtube channel lately. On smaller workpieces he uses a copper drift to set the piece in the milling vise instead of a hammer. I decided to order a piece of 3/4" copper off of Ebay and make one for myself. I made one piece into a drift like he uses and installed a small handle in another to make a small hammer. I will see how I like them.
Sloth,

Love the hammer that you made. I really like the contrast with the copper - can you tell me what did on the lower part to get the black finish. Is it blueing or just a good coat of that black sharpie in the picture? :chunky:

Thanks!
 

9t8z28

Steel
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Wow I thought the Diamant would be way more expensive! I too watched Stefan's video and wanted to try this product. Your the first person I have heard mention using it and posting in the forums. I went to the link for Diamant that Stefan posted and of course I got lost. When I go to order do I just tell them I need 50 gram kit of DWH 310 FL: $13.00 ? Is the release agent Icheard others discussing available from them as well?
The syringe looks to be a standard syringe? I am pretty sure I have one or 2 laying around.
You stated you used all 50 grams of the DWH. My mill column and base mount the same way but its just a little smaller. Do you think the 50 g's is enough?
Sorry for all the questions. I will be doing this to my X2 and then when I get my PM-25 . :)
I believe I ordered the same product Stefan Gotteswinter uses in his youtube video on epoxy tramming. In the US, you have to call Devitt Machinery Co. to place an order. Devitt appears to be the only US distributer for Diamant products. Ordering was quick and painless. I will see how the epoxy works when it comes in.

Devitt Phone: 1 (877) 368-1528

I ordered:
50 gram kit of DWH 310 FL: $13.00
50 gram injector: $2.50
 

Sloth2009

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Sloth,

Love the hammer that you made. I really like the contrast with the copper - can you tell me what did on the lower part to get the black finish. Is it blueing or just a good coat of that black sharpie in the picture? :chunky:

Thanks!
I cheated on the handle as I don't have a lathe. I stole the handle off a cheap plastic faced hammer from a small punch set. The black is just the way it came in the box. I dinged the finish up on the narrow part so just cleaned it up with sandpaper. I have done hot bluing before with sodium nitrate and lye. The finish can turn out extremely nice, but its a bit of a pain. Here is the website I followed to do it.
http://www.blindhogg.com/homemadesalts.html

Here is a picture of the first knife I blued.
IMG_6177.JPG
 

Sloth2009

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Wow I thought the Diamant would be way more expensive! I too watched Stefan's video and wanted to try this product. Your the first person I have heard mention using it and posting in the forums. I went to the link for Diamant that Stefan posted and of course I got lost. When I go to order do I just tell them I need 50 gram kit of DWH 310 FL: $13.00 ? Is the release agent Icheard others discussing available from them as well?
The syringe looks to be a standard syringe? I am pretty sure I have one or 2 laying around.
You stated you used all 50 grams of the DWH. My mill column and base mount the same way but its just a little smaller. Do you think the 50 g's is enough?
Sorry for all the questions. I will be doing this to my X2 and then when I get my PM-25 . :)
I used 2 of the 50 gram kits. I will post the price list I had from earlier this year. They also give calculations on it to figure out about how much you will need for your application. There is also some release agent listed on the form. The 50 gram cans are not on the list, but you can ask for them when you call. The ordering was pretty easy over the phone. You can also get a 100 gram can for about $20. The syringes are nothing special, but since there is a limited pot life you want to be able to fit what you need in a syringe or two to save time. You can buy some even bigger syringes for administering oral meds to horses and such at ranch supply stores.
 

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Sloth2009

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Thats not the same machine at all. I think its a grade above mine but thank you. My machine has an hollow rectangular boxed column with a 2" riser block to give me 13" between the spindle and table. The column mounts to the base in the same fashion as your PM-727. It flexes about .002-.003" with light pressure from 2 fingers. If I yank on it real hard it will probably cut .010" ! but I can still side mill and plunge mill on mild steel but at low doc.
Here are a couple sites for the x2 column stiffening. Not sure if this is the same type of column as yours.

http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html#x2 column

https://lanzerbot.wordpress.com/2014/12/17/stiffening-the-vertical-column-on-the-x2-mill/
 
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