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jbolt

Active User
H-M Supporter-Premium
#32
View attachment 230315 View attachment 230316 View attachment 230317 View attachment 230318 View attachment 230319 My biggest concern is the "flex" in the column. If I grab the top of the column and push back or forwards I get a lot of movement (0.005 or more) in the y-axis testing from spindle to table. The x-axis doesn't have the same problem, and it still shows up the same if I push on the head instead. I tried flexing the stand/base, but that had almost no effect. I tightened the 4 mounting bolts as tight as I could without a big cheater but it still has the problem. How much of this flex is normal? Is there a torque spec for the column bolts? Has anybody run into this before?
My PM-932 does the same thing. I get about .002 to .003 flex if I tug on the head. It has no measurable affect when taking finishing cuts so I don't worry about it.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#33
I believe I ordered the same product Stefan Gotteswinter uses in his youtube video on epoxy tramming. In the US, you have to call Devitt Machinery Co. to place an order. Devitt appears to be the only US distributer for Diamant products. Ordering was quick and painless. I will see how the epoxy works when it comes in.

Devitt Phone: 1 (877) 368-1528

I ordered:
50 gram kit of DWH 310 FL: $13.00
50 gram injector: $2.50
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#37
IMG_5078.PNG I tried to mill in the 12mm step in the fixture keys that came with my vise but they proved to be way too hard for my HSS end mills. I waffled on if I would make some stepped vise keys from some 4140 stock or buy some pre-made. I ended up buying some because I didn't feel like trying to harden them. Here is a website you can purchase some stepped vise keys to fit the 12mm slots on the pm-727m.

https://www.carrlane.com/en-us/product/locators/fixture-keys/step-fixture-keys
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Premium Content
H-M Supporter-Premium
#38
T-nuts do not need to be hardened or made from high alloy steel. T-nuts made from mild steel or from mystery metal will work fine in a home shop. You don't want to crank on the fasteners anyway, because you will damage the table or the T-slots. Production T-nuts are hardened, probably to give them better wearing properties and to allow them to take heavier loads without failing, even though that is a mistake. I never gronk down on fasteners going into T-slots. Break out a chunk of cast iron table and you will know why...
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#39
IMG_5083.JPG IMG_5080.JPG IMG_5082.JPG
T-nuts do not need to be hardened or made from high alloy steel. T-nuts made from mild steel or from mystery metal will work fine in a home shop. You don't want to crank on the fasteners anyway, because you will damage the table or the T-slots. Production T-nuts are hardened, probably to give them better wearing properties and to allow them to take heavier loads without failing, even though that is a mistake. I never gronk down on fasteners going into T-slots. Break out a chunk of cast iron table and you will know why...
These look like T-nuts but they are not. They are called stepped vise or fixture keys. They attach to the bottom of a precision vise. They are only T-shaped due to try to match them with the table slots, otherwise they come rectangular. They are also precisely ground and hardened. Kurt sells them for over $30 per pair but not in 12mm. They are precision milled vice keys meant to tram in your vise reasonably accurately to the table slots simply by setting them in the slots.
 
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Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Premium Content
H-M Supporter-Premium
#40
View attachment 230750 View attachment 230751
These look like T-nuts but they are not. They are called stepped vise or fixture keys. They attach to the bottom of a precision vise. They are only T-shaped due to try to match them with the table slots, otherwise they come rectangular. They are also precisely ground and hardened. Kurt sells them for over $30 per pair but not in 12mm. They are precision milled vice keys meant to tram in your vise reasonably accurately to the table slots simply by setting them in the slots.
I use shop made keys for that purpose with my BP vise. They are accurately made of 1018 steel to a nice fit in both vise (tight) and table (snug but sliding), and are soft so they do not ding the slots. All the exposed corners are carefully rounded in all directions so they do not scratch and ding the table or the slots. They work great and are essentially free. I have the facilities to harden them, but consider that a bad idea.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#41
I use shop made keys for that purpose with my BP vise. They are accurately made of 1018 steel to a nice fit in both vise (tight) and table (snug but sliding), and are soft so they do not ding the slots. All the exposed corners are carefully rounded in all directions so they do not scratch and ding the table or the slots. They work great and are essentially free. I have the facilities to harden them, but consider that a bad idea.
That makes sense.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#42
IMG_5092.JPG IMG_5093.JPG IMG_5096.JPG IMG_5097.JPG Received the DWH today. It is gonna take some clean up, set up, and other prep work before I feel comfortable moving forward with the epoxy tram. However I thought I would post a few pics of the product. Thanks to Mr. Korves for recommending the epoxy tram video. FYI the cans do have expiration dates.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#43
My z-axis gib is at full adjustment and still needs to move in a little more. The other gibs adjusted as expected. I haven't particularly noticed slop in the z-axis but wanted to tighten it up as much as reasonably possible. I adjusted the screws all the way in and was still able to tap it in a bit farther with a brass rod with out excessive friction on the ways. I had to back the screws off though because the bottom gib screw ran out of thread. I'm thought about cutting a little of the bottom of the gib to give the bottom screw more purchase, but I'm not sure it would get me enough movement. I may have to ask Matt at PM. Is there any known remedy for this besides shimming or remaking the gib?
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Premium Content
H-M Supporter-Premium
#44
My z-axis gib is at full adjustment and still needs to move in a little more. The other gibs adjusted as expected. I haven't particularly noticed slop in the z-axis but wanted to tighten it up as much as reasonably possible. I adjusted the screws all the way in and was still able to tap it in a bit farther with a brass rod with out excessive friction on the ways. I had to back the screws off though because the bottom gib screw ran out of thread. I'm thought about cutting a little of the bottom of the gib to give the bottom screw more purchase, but I'm not sure it would get me enough movement. I may have to ask Matt at PM. Is there any known remedy for this besides shimming or remaking the gib?
Shims.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#46
I have that same R8 rack from Sisan Co that I use for my R8 tooling. I don't use very many R8 collets. I love that rack. Great quality & inexpensive. I ordered directly from Sisan & it showed up the next day. I had no idea they were local to me.
Yea I like it too. It was priced better than others I saw online also.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#47
IMG_5115.JPG I ended up cutting off the part of the gib sticking out. About a 1/2 inch. I was able to get just enough adjustment out of the top screw to get slide reasonably tight and both screws in the right spot.
 

darkzero

Global Moderator
Staff member
H-M Supporter-Premium
#48
View attachment 230753 View attachment 230750 View attachment 230751
These look like T-nuts but they are not. They are called stepped vise or fixture keys. They attach to the bottom of a precision vise. They are only T-shaped due to try to match them with the table slots, otherwise they come rectangular. They are also precisely ground and hardened. Kurt sells them for over $30 per pair but not in 12mm. They are precision milled vice keys meant to tram in your vise reasonably accurately to the table slots simply by setting them in the slots.
Some people like those vise locating keys, some people don't. I'm part of those who don't, not on my vise or rotary table anyway. I like to slide my vise onto the table (especially if you have a heavy one) & move it around before setting in location. Quick & easy to tram the vise anyway.

But for my super spacer & tailstock I do use them. I don't rely on them for tram but rather for a general index for one table slot to help get the tailstock in line quicker when I need it.

I did have to mill a step in the locating keys for my super spacer to fit my table. Carbide end mill did the job.
 

TheGov

Iron
Registered Member
#49
After a few weeks making chips, last night I noticed that the 'Y' table has developed some slop in the y direction. I snugged down the backlash adjustment, but that didn't effect the slop. The play was the same.
Any suggestion on where to look for this new play?
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#51
After a few weeks making chips, last night I noticed that the 'Y' table has developed some slop in the y direction. I snugged down the backlash adjustment, but that didn't effect the slop. The play was the same.
Any suggestion on where to look for this new play?
I just adjusted mine... I pulled out both gib screws and lightly tapped the gib in farther from the front with a little piece of brass and hammer until the slide stiffened up. Replaced the screws and adjusted them until I got a reasonable balance between friction and tightness. Both screws should be tight when finished. You can adjust with just the screws but I found it hard to feel how tight the gib was. You can also use the table movement to slide gib in and out out if the screws are loosened up. Essentially you need to tighten the front screw and loosen the back screw to move the gib in and tighten the Y axis up.
 
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Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#52
I just adjusted mine... I pulled out both gib screws and lightly tapped the gib in farther from the front with a little piece of brass and hammer until the slide stiffened up. Replaced the screws and adjusted them until I got a reasonable balance between friction and tightness. Both screws should be tight when finished. You can adjust with just the screws but I found it hard to feel how tight the gib was. You can also use the table movement to slide gib in and out out if the screws are loosened up. Essentially you need to tighten the front screw and loosen the back screw to move the gib in and tighten the Y axis up.
For the PM-727m, The Z-xis gib needs to move down to tighten. The X axis gib needs to move left to tighten. The Y axis gib needs to move towards the back of the machine to tighten. The gib is essentially just a wedge you drive inbetween the ways to take up non linear movement.
 
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Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#54
Thanks for the info on adjusting the gibs...Found out what the real problem was though, the bolts that hold the lead screw nut to the saddle were holding on by tess than a thread.
Glad you found the issue. Did you have to take both tables off to get to that?
 
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Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#56
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Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#57
IMG_5141.JPG Has anyone used these Kodiak carbides? I've never bought $$$ end mills before so I hope they are worth it. If they turn out good I will probably pick up the square 4-flute set also.
 
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Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#58
IMG_5144.JPG Quick and dirty end mill organizer. The wood is an ash wheel barrow handle you can by at any home improvement store or $12 or so. You could get a lot of these out of a handle. I had some left over from another project. Makes a pretty decent end mill and bit organizer.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#59
IMG_5151.JPG IMG_5152.JPG IMG_5153.JPG IMG_5154.JPG Newbie aluminum practice. I cut the narrow outside surfaces with a 3 insert inexible face mill. After failing to grind a HSS bit correctly, I used a carbide bit in a fly cutter with a right handed spin to cut the wide outside surfaces. I hogged out most of the center with a 3/4" corncob rougher. Then cleaned it up and made the cross with a 3/8" 2 flute HSS Pend mill. I then chamfered the top and bottem edges with a 3/8" ball nose carbide end mill.
 

Sloth2009

Active Member
Active Member
#60
IMG_5146.JPG IMG_5148.JPG IMG_5149.JPG
View attachment 230585 View attachment 230586 View attachment 230587 Being a retentive pharmacist, I ordered some teflon washers to fill the gap in the handle knobs. The click clack sound of my uneven rotation irritated me. :distrust:
I found a better fix to the handle clicking. The screw shaft that the handle spins on protrudes slightly out the back. This shoulder was catching the teflon washers and tearing them up. I wanted something to just barely fit over the shoulder and still be fairly low friction. I measured the shoulder and ordered some copper crush washers from Amazon. When I installed them, I hit the screw shoulder lightly with a file so when you tighten the screw down the pressure forces the washer onto the handle shaft. Along with some blue thread locker I finally got the handles how I want them and the copper washers should last luch longer.


Copper crush washer:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTZWSSO/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0