New to me 1929 wide (heavy?) 9" long bed and overhead silent drive casting trade

[mattthemuppet2]

hi all,

I came across this SB wide 9 project a while ago while helping a "new to lathe work" guy set up his Clausing and last week he offered it to me for what he had in it as he has to move.

Plus sides are it was a price I could afford (more or less) at $400, everything had been cleaned, it was a 55" bed and it will be a far more capable lathe than the unmentionable (begins with At and ends with 618) I've been using for the last 5 years or so.

Down sides are that everything has been cleaned but not reassembled, it has some wear near the headstock (enough to catch a nail, haven't measured it yet), it came only with a 3 jaw chuck (no outside jaws) and no drive system. It originally shipped with an overhead silent chain drive, but I only have the main casting and nothing else (no plate or countershaft). I'll be making my own horizontal drive using some pillow block bearings, 1/2" alu plate and some poly-v pulleys.

Here's the bed


Single tumbler gear box


Apron


Carriage, compound and a weird threaded but undrilled/ slotted face plate


Headstock and tailstock


Cushman chuck and carriage handwheel


and the overhead drive casting




I won't be able to start putting it back together in earnest until I've finished my current project (mountainbike fork damper rebuild) as I need to get the space back in my garage and free up my current lathe.

In the meantime - what to do with the overhead drive casting? Personally I'd prefer to trade it for stuff that I need (steady rest, 4 jaw chuck, 3 jaw chuck w/outside jaws, in that order) but would it be better to put it up on eBay and then use that money to buy what I need?

Oh, serial number is 42149, which puts it as a 1929 or 1930 build.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

Hi matt,
nice score!!!
i may have a chuck for you!
i'll check my pile.
is it 1-1/8" x 8 tpi spindle?

 

[mattthemuppet2]

thanks Mike! I'm super pumped - partly from happiness, partly from having to move that stuff around, it is HEAVY. 1 1/2" x 8tpi spindle - same as newer SB9s and Atlas 10" I believe. Definitely interested in what you have

right now I have to get back to that 7/16-28 internal thread I'm trying to get right, it's not a lot of fun.

 

[silverhawk]

It sounds like a "Junior". The title including both "wide" and "heavy" are applicable, but not original monikers. The serial numbers don't include the model designation. If you don't have the gear cover with the model designation, I'd suggest going to the Grizzly site and ordering a "serial card" - basically a PDF of the ledger that recorded the "sale" of that particular lathe. If you want an example, my serial cards were posted on a blog.

As a test, I found I could drop a heavy 10 headstock onto my Junior bed. Unfortunately, my lathe bed (and your bed) wasn't designed for an underdrive, so I found myself building a full heavy 10. With that process, I found my Junior will hold many Heavy 10 parts, if you get the right parts.

With the "overdrive", it's usually a countershaft that isn't set above the lathe, but usually to the side of it (e.g. immediately behind the headstock). My junior is also an "overdrive". I did not have the countershaft assembly, so I had to fabricate my own. It's worked well for me, but the tensioning leaves something to be desired. If you can, restore your current tensioning unit.

My "junior" was a 36" bed. My list of drawbacks on it are :

• Through-hole of the spindle is less than 3/4" - so you can't put a lot of the rods you might be turning through the spindle.
• Swing capacity - even though it's a 9" swing, I couldn't get a full 9" out of it. That swing has to include chuck jaws, so if you want to turn at near capacity, that is something to take into account (e.g. parting off a large diameter gets difficult to say the least).
• The bed length on mine left me with about a 19" between-centers capacity. With a 55" bed, you are SOLID on this one, as you'll have about 38" between centers.
• Mine had change gears - not a gear box.

However, it has served me well. The lack of the gear box necessitated me buying a gear set to match. Once I started buying heavy 10 parts from later years, I found that quite a few parts are interchangeable between that and the "junior". If you need change gears, you can probably purchase a set from a more readily available heavy 10 form.

If you have questions on assembly, we have many folks on this forum who have disassembled them and put them back together. We can walk you through anything you need on that front.

If you still have the original "japanning" finish, keep it. It is difficult to reproduce, and it is a solid cover. In that case, just make sure the ways of the bed, carriage, and slides are good, and clean up or replace missing or broken parts. We're all here for you (social distancing is natural for me).

 

[silverhawk]

Hi matt,
nice score!!!
i may have a chuck for you!
i'll check my pile.
is it 1-1/8" x 8 tpi spindle?

I'm expecting it to be a 1 1/2"-8 - which is quite a bit easier to find a backplate for a new chuck than my 10L.

 

[mattthemuppet2]

found it on p.22 of this pdf from vintage machinery

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/18536.pdf

it's a 9 inch New Model Silent Chain Motor Driven Lathe The drive set up is pretty funky - the motor and countershaft are mounted on a large plate that pivots on top of a large casting that mounts to the back of the lathe next to the headstock.

The 3/4" spindle hole will be a big improvement over the 1/2" on my Atlas 618 as will the increased swing I'm pretty sure it still has the original japanning finish and I have no intention of getting rid of that.

I'll certainly be picking brains on here about reassembly, that's for sure. There is some wear on the bed and base of the tailstock (haven't checked the carriage yet) but that's to be expected and I'm not particularly bothered by it. The plan is to incorporate some of the improvements I did to my Atlas, such as ball oilers or gits cups for the carriage and tailstock, way wipers for the same and a variable speed treadmill motor. Hopefully I'll be able to get a DRO on there as soon as possible as I use the one on my Atlas a great deal.

 

[mattthemuppet2]

Some updates:

Cleaned all the old oil and grease out of the leadscrew


and wirebrushed the paint off the rim and peg of the carriage handwheel. This isn't going to be a show queen by any stretch, but painted handwheels look the pits. Gave it a rub with Mothers and a coating of oil to stop it rusting while I'm waiting. It'll get covered in oil as soon as I start using the lathe

stripped, cleaned and regreased/ oiled the Cushman chuck. Seemed pretty light, with some wear at the very tips of the grooves on the back of the scroll (pinion?).



Apron worm housing and key had a bunch of wear, which allowed the worm to move back and forth in the housing and a large degree of rotation on the lead screw. Knocked out the pin, unscrewed the collar and saw the reason for the longitudinal slop - a groove worn by the collar.


Put it on the lathe (didn't trust my vise on the mill) and turned off the worn area plus a little bit extra. Reassembled the worm and measured the gap with feeler gauges to figure out the thickness of the washer I needed to make.


All the parts. Added new felt too..


Made a new leadscrew key out of O1 ground stock, that just happened to be almost exactly the right size. Fits nicely now with no slop.

new vs. old key


finished up the apron. Cleaned out all the oil passages, put in new felts in those and the cross feed and rack gear shafts. Had to make a new nut for the rack gear shaft as I could find one in the collection of parts. Turned out ok, although the thread depth is a little shallow as I screwed up when boring it out (misread my drill chart). Bit ****** at myself about that, not that it really matters.


apron all together



bit of wear on the worm gear and half nuts, but not too bad, especially for a 90 year old machine.

Have to think what to do next - tail stock or carriage. I'm going to be doing Halligan's tailstock travel mod, so I might get stuck into that first. Plus I have to wait to get the compound screw+bracket and gear cover from the previous owner.

 

[Tim9]

Matt.... as much as I have a sweet spot for my old 618, when I got my first South Bend 9”.... man I just couldn’t believe how much more capable it was. Granted, the South Bend 9” isn’t known as the most ridgid lathe in the machining circles. But, the move from a 618 was like night and day. I do remember that when getting my box of parts 9” workin.... that little 618 did save the day more than once.
But I think you’re going to really like that lathe. I’m also guessing a wide bed is even more ridgid than the regular 9”.
Parts might be harder to find but I’m guessing you’re going to be just fine and really like that new lathe. Congrats !
The 1930 model was much more stylish of a lathe than the later models in my opinion.

 

[silverhawk]

Granted, the South Bend 9” isn’t known as the most ridgid lathe in the machining circles.

I’m also guessing a wide bed is even more ridgid than the regular 9”.

The 1930 model was much more stylish of a lathe than the later models in my opinion.

The 9/10k might be known for not being as rigid, but the wide 9/junior is a different animal. These lathes (for a 9") are the best, small lathes from South Bend. They are stout little things and will serve you well.

joe

 

[Tim9]

thanks for pointing that out. I figured it was a more ridgid lathe... probably in the same class as Clausings or Senecas
Like I was saying ...it was all assumptions on my part. A lathe expert.... I am NOT.
But, I do know....compared to the 618.... even the regular 9” SB is a monster. When I first got my SB 9” model C.....I spent the first few days just seeing how deep of a cut I could do in steel. The little Atlas struggled with brass. But, still have a sweet spot for it.