Let's talk , Cincinnati Toolmaster 1A and 1B

Miklg said:
HI guys,

I have been watching this thread with interest as i have a cincinnati 1b for about 18 months now. I am running a rotary phase converter for my sheldon lathe,cincinnati mill and leblond #1 toolgrinder. I too am not an electrician but am muddling my way through. I have x and y axis power feeds, no coolant pump. My inner panel looks similar but different because previous owner did some retrofitting. There is main magnetic starter. then there are overload relays ,one for each of the three motors. When a heater(fuse) trips in one of these it opens the control circuit, just like pushing the red button.
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I have the same overload relays you speak of . Are you sure it's a starter or a contactor in your machine? I only asked because you mentioned heaters which a starter wouldn't need. Do you have any photos ? Seems like every one of us has the same machine but slightly different . Did you happen to see the video of my panel?
 
I am going from a poor memory but i believe my brother told me a starter and a contactor are the same the same thing.The 110 control circuit is energized when the start button is depressed . This energizes the solenoid that closes the contacts for three phase power.The heaters are normally closed contacts . If any of these "trip" the control circuit is opened, same as if hitting the stop button. I hope this helps.I am not good at explaining things sometimes.The 3 phase and the control are different circuits.
 
I did just now look at your video.I will look at my machine in A.M. to see if i can help. What are the other heaters on your panel for? Do you have a saddle feed motor? I see you have a table feed motor. Where do these wires you are concerned about go when traced out ?
 
One confusion I'm having is my circuit interrupter and contactor/starter has L1-L2-L3-L4 now the schematics only show L1,2, and 3 so what is L4?

I have just completely drawn my own schematic of the existing panel to the exact detail . Now I am comparing it to the Cincinnati schematic .
 
Miklg said:
I am going from a poor memory but i believe my brother told me a starter and a contactor are the same the same thing.The 110 control circuit is energized when the start button is depressed . This energizes the solenoid that closes the contacts for three phase power.The heaters are normally closed contacts . If any of these "trip" the control circuit is opened, same as if hitting the stop button. I hope this helps.I am not good at explaining things sometimes.The 3 phase and the control are different circuits.
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It seems my research on the two has been a bit of confusion . The contactor is part of the starter motor as an assembly and both terms are correct in there interchangeable usage it seems . The motor starter is composed of the heaters and contactor . My apologies for considering these two different things. I am no electrician either and it seems every time I talk to an electrician they are from different worlds . Not a single one can agree on anything but theory of electricity but fair enough since we can't see or touch it .
 
Ok here what I drew and I colored the two wires that go to the coil on the contactor . One wire goes to the output side on the step down transformer which is wire #2 (Red) . The in (YELLOW) we have #9 which goes to the 25th terminal on the terminal block and ties off to this little attachment that is attached to contactor/starter .

IMG_7829.JPG
Below is the attachment I speak of and a close up of the motor starter/contacter
IMG_7830.JPG

Here is a non colored schematic as my machine is currently hooked up
IMG_7852.JPG

D1A, D2A, D3A, and T4A are all unhooked from the block for some reason

... I am having a hard time relating my machine to this original schematic
http://stellarsmithing.com/cincinnatiTM/TMwiring.pdf

Tell me y'all think .
 
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Uglydog said:
Please let me know if I'm on track for what you are looking for. If there are angles or different pics you'd like please let me know.
A retired Electrical Engineer (friend of the family) used the same electrical schematic you are using and traced every wire in my 1B.
There were multiple wires which were for some unknown reason disconnected.
If it matters, he noted that one of the electrical parts was dated manufactured in 1956.

Note I have no powerfeeds or pump.
Lighting is not currently routed through the column.

Daryl
MN
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Looking at it closely your panel is completely different than mine . You have 16 points on the block and I have 25 . I see none of the relays that mine has and your starter is different as well. But I believe yours looks closer to the original schematic although I see you have 4 wires coming in as well. Still confused
 
ecdez said:
I've only been there once, but that looks like Dempsey's place. Is that where you got it? Just curious.
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Yup you are correct! Where are you located?

Nevermind I see Newport News? You know anything about this machine? It is cool you are so close.
 
I do not, sorry.

I only recognized the building because I was just up there over the July 4th weekend. He's got a lot of stuff. Some good, some not so much. No prices on anything though and I hated asking, but when I did I could't believe the prices. Picked up 3 machines that day. Might have to go up there again once I clear out some space to set up the machines I already bought.


He had a huge horizontal Cincinnati outside under the carport but I didn't ask about it. I wanted to, but no real space for it.


If you got the machine for what he told me he usually get for vertical mills, you probably made out pretty good.
 
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