Do These Prints Make Sense?

Drawings like this drive me nutty. emoji13.png I can measure your part and tell you where you put the features, but does it match your design intent? No reference to features, just imaginary points in space. What should the diameter or depth of the groove to be, for example? I would dimension the edge of the groove from a known end of the part and then dimension the width. Then I would dimension from the OD to the ID of the groove. Sorry to be critical....too many years of inspection experience! emoji48.png

Edit...the sheet2 drawing shows the depth of the groove properly. It's the attachment provided earlier (116892) that is not easy to interpret. Measuring a groove isn't easy especially if the feature is an angle. I have to say on this part, it doesn't look important...aesthetics only, so I would call out fractional dimensions here if possible. How will you do the 80 degree angle? Custom ground toolbit?
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The drawing in your quote is only a small part of a larger drawing intended to illustrate to the OP what ordinate dimensioning looks like, nothing more.

As to the OP's drawing, I would have no problem making that feature. Most likely, I would make a form tool with an 80* Vee, radiused to .016" and fed in .021" from the major diameter at .100 intervals starting .103 from the end face.

The OP was asking for constructive criticism on his drawing.
 
The drawing in your quote is only a small part of a larger drawing intended to illustrate to the OP what ordinate dimensioning looks like, nothing more.

As to the OP's drawing, I would have no problem making that feature. Most likely, I would make a form tool with an 80* Vee, radiused to .016" and fed in .021" from the major diameter at .100 intervals starting .103 from the end face.

The OP was asking for constructive criticism on his drawing.
The OP drawing wasn't bad, and I think I did give some constructive feedback on hole positioning. Like all forum related advice, you have to sort through it and make of it what you will. The third drawing that was attached later is the one that drives me nutty.

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I guess a good question would be what do people consider good "UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED" tolerances? I haven't seen anything listed as a standard, and blueprints i have seen are all over the place.
 
The OP drawing wasn't bad, and I think I did give some constructive feedback on hole positioning. Like all forum related advice, you have to sort through it and make of it what you will. The third drawing that was attached later is the one that drives me nutty.

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And that third drawing was mine and was of a completely different part. It was presented with the sole purpose of illustrating to the OP how ordinate dimensioning is done. Other than that, there was no relationship to the drawings the OP posted.
 
And that third drawing was mine and was of a completely different part. It was presented with the sole purpose of illustrating to the OP how ordinate dimensioning is done. Other than that, there was no relationship to the drawings the OP posted.
Sorry if I offended. I'm just not a fan of ordinate dimensioning because (in my experience) it is often used without much critical thought to how the part will be inspected. The OP had a relative dimensioning callout of his grooves of which said features are shared with your drawing. The tolerance stackups are quite different when viewed this way.

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John,

You hit the nail on the head! That's the way I've been doing drafting and dimensioning for the last 40 years! And I have to put up with this ISO crap from the Chinese, not to drag them into this discussion. And the one that gets me is the "first order of projection" they use. Those Europeans started that many years ago!

Ok, I get off my rant and back to the discussion.

EDIT: I have my preference on dimensioning and tolerancing that many may and will disagree with, but it follows the basic fundamentals of drafting. Everyone here has their own style of dimensioning, but as long as it is understood to the person that has to interpertape it and use it to manufacture a given part, he has communicated.
 
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As a design engineer with 10 years on Pro/E and the last 15 years on SolidWorks designing machined parts, these would be my comments.....

• Your parts and drawing are very good. Your parts could be made. Being self taught, you are to be commended.

• If anything, the greatest drawback is that the parts are over-dimensioned.
A) For instance, the length of the 4 holes. I would have pointed at one hole and said "2X Ø.375 THRU". The exact length of the hole is the part minus the 2 counterbores. When you give the length of the hole, then it is not clear to the machinist which is more important, the length of the part or the length of the hole. The hole is therefore, double dimensioned. Obviously, the overall length of the part is far more important, the hole will fall out as a result of the part length and 2 counterbores.

Rule: Only show the MOST IMPORTANT dimensions. Any dimensions that can be derived by simple math are NOT shown. If you want to give the dimension to save the machinist calculation time, then place the dimension in parenthesis, or follow the dimension with the word "REF". Those dimensions are then understood to be "for reference only" and are not "ruling".

Consider your checkbook monthly statement. If your statement told you your balance was $203.00 and yet the same sheet told you the balance was $203.02, then you'd be in a dither about what the exact balance was. This is exactly what you are doing to the machinist when you double-diemnsion. Capisce ?

B) You needn't give a detail view of both chamfers. There are realistically only 2 places an outside chamfer can be, and both are already shown. I have a BSME degree and a US patent, but every machinist I ever met was way smarter than me, so give them some credit. Simply point to one corner and say "2X .12 x 45°". I assure you they will find the other corner. :D

And why is the corner chamfered? To make is easier to handle or fit, so a 3 place dimension (+/-.003") is not required. Notice I knocked it down to a 2 place decimal. This one move just saved you $200 in manufacturing costs.

And why did I make both chamfers identical? Because when you dimension them differently you are calling out for 2 separate machining setups. Use the dimension you must have on one end, on BOTH ends and save money. Part cost is life or death these days. Think about the cost. Think about the part as if it were YOUR money being spent.

And chamfers are dimensioned across the horizontal or vertical, hardly ever across the face. This because a lathe is already setup to give this dimension directly from the machine controls. If you MUST have the .030" face, then you have to give the reference dimension for the horizontal or vertical so that the machinist doesn't have to do the trig.

C) Drilled holes do not have the same tolerance as machined holes. Drill bits are typically +.003/-.001" up to 3/8. If you want a drilled hole and will accept the resulting tolerances, then make it clear you what you want and will accept. Again we are concerned with cost. I might say "2X Ø.375 +/-.010 THRU", meaning you use a 3/8 drill bit and I'll accept the hole it generates.

Ø.2188 is a reamed hole. Do you really need a reamed hole? Really?

Holes are always called out in the "full face" view if possible; that is, the view in the lower left corner. Again, the shorthand nomenclature is used.... "2X Ø.375 THRU". The machinist will find the second 3/8 hole.


The purchase of a copy of ANSI Y14.5 would go a long way toward helping you improve your dimensioning.

Hope this helps!
 
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