American made drill press?

Mayhem said:
Ron - I suggest the following steps:
  1. get the HF unit (based upon the responses here)
  2. on the way home, stop by your local sign maker and ask them to make you some stickers with the US flag on it and the words made in the USA
  3. apply the stickers to the drill
  4. use the drill without prejudice
  5. if you feel guilt about applying the stickers, drink some whiskey (or other spirit) - it will rub that guilt right out.
  6. enjoy using the drill

Unfortunately, we live in a world influenced by money and politics. A few years ago I got talking to a guy locally that I had purchased some tooling from on eBay and discovered that he was importing air tools directly from China. They were coming off the same production line as some of the big names sold internationally. He showed me one of the samples of an impact driver they sent him, which had the brand name 'removed'. He also showed me one of the ones they had done for him in his colour scheme and with his company name on it. He offered me the sample for $100 or the new one for $150. I took the new one, mainly because the other looked like it had been stolen with the name, model number etc removed (although I new it wasn't). It is 3/4" drive and puts out 1200ft/lb of torque. It has come in very handy and not given any trouble.

To buy the name brand new would have cost a hell of a lot more. As more companies move offshore, they demand higher quality, so I don't think that we can say that all Chinese made items are crap.
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The thing is, I really am not biased against things made overseas from China, Taiwan, etc. as long as it's of a certain level of quality. I don't like buying "crap" whether it's made in China, Taiwan, or the U.S., etc. no matter what "brand" name is on it. The stuff you can get from Harbor Freight tends to be the "bottom of the barrel" as far as quality goes and their prices pretty much reflect that, again, you get what you pay for. Now, I am pretty sure that there are craftsmen/companies in China that can build things of the highest quality but I'm guessing that the cost just as much to produce over there as they would over here and they don't get imported to here.

I have a theory on this phenomenon. It's theory because I don't have direct knowledge of manufacturing or the import/export process. In a nut shell (using Chinese goods as an example)...

I first assume that the Chinese are able to make tooling of a quality on par with any other manufacturer in the world. Like over here though, it is still expensive to manufacture to that quality. Once you add on the costs of importing it to the U.S. (shipping, taxes, import duties, etc.) your sell price would have to be on par or more with stuff that is produced domestically. That's why we don't see the real good stuff that they are capable of making.

All we see is the "crap" because, first of all, it has to be produced so cheaply that they can still add on the international shipping fees/taxes/distribution/etc. and still have it priced cheaper than what can be produced domestically. Second, it has to be priced ridiculously low because it isn't "quality" equipment but people snap it up because they don't understand what quality is anymore. That or they don't really use it enough to find out it's crap (ie. the Chinese drill press becomes a "coat rack" next to the exercise bike :rolleyes:). In other words, not enough people are actually working with or able to work with these kinds of tools to make a large enough market for "quality" tools to be built in this country. Those of us who are then are left with the choice of "crap" or "ridiculously expensive" equipment for our purpose.

Anyways, despite the unhinged ranting, that's my theory as to why one associates U.S. made with "quality" and Chinese made with "crap". It's not really true but it's what we look around us and see.

-Ron
 
ScrapMetal said:
... Once you add on the costs of importing it to the U.S. (shipping, taxes, import duties, etc.) your sell price would have to be on par or more with stuff that is produced domestically. ...

-Ron
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Surprisingly the cost of ocean shipping is not that much. I was talking with a friend and he is paying around $4,000 per 40 foot container from China. I think you could get a lot of hand tools into a single 40 foot container so the individual item cost would not be all that great. Then there are the taxes and duties ... http://www.usitc.gov/tata/hts/bychapter/index.htm ... if you are interested. For a mill it would be 4.2% no matter where it comes from – China, Canada, etc. Plus broker fees but again that is pretty minimal on a per items basis.

I assume that once the container is in country that the distribution costs would be the same as for any product produced domestically.

As was mentioned earlier, it has become a global world. With shipping being so low, for most things it really doesn’t matter where the manufacturing facility is located.
 
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Mayhem said:
I wasn't inferring that you were anti-China Ron, just making a general point regarding the way the world is Changing. I understand what you are saying but volume also plays a part in it, as does the costs involved.

One factory can punch out the same item, with a few minor differences being applied as they come of the line (colour, badging etc). This is why there are several companies selling virtually identical items.

Employees here and in the US (and a lot of other countries) have generally higher wages, lower hours, more benefits, more off time, unions who push for better working conditions and wages, OHS laws etc, etc, all of which drives up the price. This doesn't happen in China. I have seen building sites over there where power tools don't have plugs on them and the workers simply hot patch into a power supply. Try doing that at work!

The Volkswagen principle still has merit. The VW Beetle was built and sold cheaply. There was not a big profit made on an individual vehicle but with millions sold, there didn't need to be. Flood the marked with something that fills a need at a reasonable price and you will reap the reward. It amazes me that in almost every movie I saw that was made in the 70's, 80's or 90's you would see a VW Beetle somewhere (ok, not in Star Wars but you guys know what I mean).
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No problem Mayhem, my response kind of sounded like I took exception to it but that really wasn't the case. On a different note, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a Volkswagen somewhere in Star Wars but disguised under a "crawler" or some such. Those things are everywhere. :biggrin:

-Ron
 
Bit of an update. I did go to the local <cringe> HF and picked up the "Heavy Duty" 16-speed drill press. Cripes! It's hard to put down money on this stuff when the "demo" model looks like hell, was put together very sloppily, and has broken parts hanging off it. I could have gotten the taller version for the same money but the shorter one just felt a little more solid. I'll get or build a short table or stand for it to sit on. I'll probably post pics once I get it put together and running.

-Ron
 
That'll have me worried until I have a chance to open the box and see what I have. :p Was going to do it this afternoon but "work" kinda got in the way.

-Ron
 
I did get a chance to take the parts out of the box and do a quick partial assembly. I have to say that I am fairly pleased by what I have found. The castings are a lot smoother than the floor model they had out and the fit and finish is better as well. The only flaw that I've seen so far is the sheet metal enclosure for the pulleys/belts has a sizable dent in it that keeps if from opening/closing properly (Pretty sure this happened in shipping as the dent matches a hole in the cardboard box it came out of. I haven't taken a good look at the apindle or chuck but I'll do that next time I'm working on it.

I will take a couple pics when it's completely put together and I have had a chance to test it out.

-Ron
 
Kind of like the old joke about a company subbing out some work to a Japanese manufacturer. They were told that 4% would be an acceptable scrap percentage. When the shipment came in, and went thru QC, there was exactly 4% scrappage. When asked about it, the Japanese said they were told that 4% was acceptable, so they interpreted that as not 3%, not 5%....but 4%, so they made sure that 4 out of every 100 parts shipped was no good.
 
A funny thing happened when Home Depot opened a store in China. The Chinese consumers complained loudly how crappy their own manufactured tools were made. To correct the earlier comment, we American workers put in more hours per week, have less pension and general benefits and have less vacation time than the rest of the first-world countries. It is absurd that we cater to and should lower our quality standards to meet the Communist Chinese! Joe Mc Carthy is not only turning over in his grave but having a conniption fit dance! Of course his accomplice, Richard Nixon, opened the trade floodgates with China and legitimized the trade with the communists.
The swinging economic pendulum will come back to us because the Chinese standard of living is getting better every time a new factory is completed and their wages are getting higher. As long as they want the Western lifestyle they will need to make higher wages to actually export it from abroad, wether it is our furniture or the intellectual properties. This has all happened before in the 1800's and will never end. The US just needs to spend our war-chest here and create more educated, mentally and physically. We need the trades instructed in the high schools, as well as the colleges.
Kind regards,
Giovanni
 
Hi Rick,
I'm in complete agreement with you.Our children are our natural resources and must be the next inventors and business entrepreneurs but without skills they have no prospects.
Kind regards,
Giovanni
 
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