Titan/Titanic tragedy

I agree with the wireless controller being a good idea. It removed a hull failure point.
It was basically sealing yourself inside of an air cylinder and adding a transport craft to transport it. I don't think that was part, or any, of the problem.

As said by many. A tube is less stable than a sphere. It's that simple. Spheres actually get stronger when pressure is applied from all angles.

The next time someone does this, and you know they will, they need to have a communication system. They need to have an automatic emergency locator. They need to have a MANUAL ballast release. This could be a simple lever inside that separates an internal magnet from a magnet on the outside.
It would not hurt for a failure device to be installed as well. Something on the transport that will fail before the cockpit.

While none of these would have saved this group of people, it would have, likely, saved a lot of stress in trying to locate a craft that didn't have life on board.
As much as I don't feel there's anything "wasted" in the rescue attempt (money was just redistributed to workers and such) I do believe a few probably put their lives in a little danger simply by looking for survivors.
 
Inferno said:
I agree with the wireless controller being a good idea. It removed a hull failure point.
It was basically sealing yourself inside of an air cylinder and adding a transport craft to transport it. I don't think that was part, or any, of the problem.

As said by many. A tube is less stable than a sphere. It's that simple. Spheres actually get stronger when pressure is applied from all angles.

The next time someone does this, and you know they will, they need to have a communication system. They need to have an automatic emergency locator. They need to have a MANUAL ballast release. This could be a simple lever inside that separates an internal magnet from a magnet on the outside.
It would not hurt for a failure device to be installed as well. Something on the transport that will fail before the cockpit.

While none of these would have saved this group of people, it would have, likely, saved a lot of stress in trying to locate a craft that didn't have life on board.
As much as I don't feel there's anything "wasted" in the rescue attempt (money was just redistributed to workers and such) I do believe a few probably put their lives in a little danger simply by looking for survivors.
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They reportedly had at least 4 ways of dropping ballast.
1. Electrical
2. Hydraulically
3. Mechanically
4. Fused (ie: links that dissolve after a specified period)

There’s also no way in hell COTS should be in a vessel enduring those extremes. Theres a reason we specify a mil spec for our equipment and this thing was so far out of those requirements it beggars imagination. If you tried to install COTS in any of my aircraft, you’d get a solid beating. I'm not joking, I would literally drag you out behind the hangar and beat you to within an inch of your life and I'd have a crew of about 300 guys helping me.

I have pretty much done that to many “engineering officers" who had a “bright idea” about how to modify my air weapons systems (AWS) with COTS. I’m not flying 200-300 miles out to sea depending on something you bought from Canadian Tire because you say its “good enough”. If it meets the mil spec, fine. If it doesn't, you;re going to get a beating. I don’t care how many letters you have after your name, its my @ss in the seat and if I don’t like it, you can flock off! You're not taking chances with my life. Period.

Like I already mentioned, if they told me I was going to be bolted into the pressure vessel with no means of getting out until they unbolted whatever, that would be the end of the trip for me. It's probably because I have 30 years of flying SAR in conditions that would curl your toes. I will risk my life for the mission, but not on something I consider faulty or suspect. When I do risk my life for the mission, it's in an arena I fully am capable of understanding the risks (ie: weather, machine limitations and capabilities, machine condition, crew capabilities and limitations, etc) and making a considered and knowledgable decision on accept the mission or decline. And there were lots of "declines", have to have a reasonable cahnce of success and returning home alive and intact. You'd never get me off the ground if you told me "once you're in the aircraft there's no way out if something goes wrong". Seems like a common sense thing to me.

Sure, those por SOB's signed an extensive waver and you can argue they knew what they were getting into. But there's no way a layman can read a waiver and truly understand what they are getting into. Layman rely on the experts/professionals to keep them safe, they don't have the knowledge or risk assessment model experince to make an informed decision. I dont care how many papers they sign or briefings you give them, they just can't grasp the scenario because they don't have the experience to.



Their problem was lack of adherence to accepted methods/ regulation, a refusal to take learned advice into account and novel construction methods/materials that were not fully vetted. For all intents and purposes, they were field testing novel equipment on the backs of their customers dollars and risking their lives. NOT COOL! NO COOL AT ALL!

To be blunt: it's criminal in my estimation. Whether or not there's a law that says is criminal or not isn't in my wheelhouse. But it should be.

I have little doubt the accident investigation team will find otherwise, but I’m open to any and all substantiated findings.

As I already mentioned, there was also a good dose of hubris involved…
 
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Oh right, like they use in airliners: Scotch tape, duct tape, paper clips, coathangers, etc...
 
pdentrem said:
The CEO refused to hire 50 year old white guys with experience with the excuse that they are not likely to think outside the box. My uncle worked for Dominion Engineering which was part of GE until Jack the Hack Welch showed up. My uncle had to rework and show the errors and why, on most of the new design plans by the new young guys to fix their assumptions that school teaches everything but in the real wild world shows this to be false.

The world makes the box and is continuing to test everything that we make.

Working with millions of pounds of water pressure and being the alpha tester is not my idea of safe.
Pierre
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You mean "Neutron Jack"? Nicknamed because he'd tour a functioning plant, the next day all that was left was a building.
 
markba633csi said:
Oh right, like they use in airliners: Scotch tape, duct tape, paper clips, coathangers, etc...
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Nope. that will end up with you in jail. You follow the tech manuals or you get the hell out.

We don't eff around with that garbage in aviation. Anyone who does, isn't in aviation very long. You're routed out and booted out, toute suite.

They do sometimes get by the "filters", and that's usually when you see "human error" on post crash reports....
 
Inferno said:
I understand what you're saying but you can't pet a shark at the aquarium.
You can't touch the lava at a volcano.
You can't stand in the middle of a tornado.
But people like to get closer than they should.

Plus there's bragging rights and the wealthy love to brag.

I'm not too different.
I've allowed a bear to get within a few feet of me.
I've had a bear sniff me though the thin fabric of a tent.
I've pet a wild deer. As well as an elk.
I've caught wild snakes, and held a wild chipmunk in my hand.
I've climbed a hillside to stand next to a wildfire.
And, well, if I had enough money I might have been in that sub. Just being honest.
I've been in a few situations where luck is the reason I'm alive and I did it just to say I did. (My friends were wuss's)

You only live once.

But I'm a boomer. That's how we rolled.
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Crazy Bast%^&*YUrd :)
 
The idea of the carbon fiber shell allowed for a much larger crew compartment.
But, a Youtube clip I watched had some former retired expert, you know them, question the lack of data for this type of vehicle.
I bet they have much more data now to begin again.

Hopefully this tragedy will save lives in the long run
 
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