[Documentation] Working Group - Thread Collection - Place Links, Source Materials, Images we want to use here.

[extropic]

Educate don't denigrate.

Do you feel someone was unfairly criticized? If so, whom?

 

[Weldingrod1]

I think that was intended a way to think about what kind of material we want the beginner to see: educational, not opaque/hard to read/full of jargon, and not "those Elbonian turnip twaddlers are junk and you are a _____ for even knowing about them" (just trying to come up with something sufficient ridiculous so it sounds funny instead of mean!...)

This is a great forum and delightfully welcoming to beginners!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Aaron_W]

I think that was intended a way to think about what kind of material we want the beginner to see: educational, not opaque/hard to read/full of jargon, and not "those Elbonian turnip twaddlers are junk and you are a _____ for even knowing about them" (just trying to come up with something sufficient ridiculous so it sounds funny instead of mean!...)

This is a great forum and delightfully welcoming to beginners!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Exactly, and the post replied to did not exactly come across as sincere laced with words like paranoia, psychologists, wet nurses. I don't know what it is about tool and machinery sites that brings out the tool in people.

To be honest my initial reaction was to post something much less warm and fuzzy that what I did post, but self restraint got the better of me.

 

[vtcnc]

Exactly, and the post replied to did not exactly come across as sincere laced with words like paranoia, psychologists, wet nurses. I don't know what it is about tool and machinery sites that brings out the tool in people.

To be honest my initial reaction was to post something much less warm and fuzzy that what I did post, but self restraint got the better of me.

I feel like we are getting off track. Let's focus on the matter at hand: providing a useful source of information for new and experienced hobbyists alike. We can all agree that each individuals motivation to seek knowledge or to share knowledge is going to infinitely vary. We aren't trying to find a solution for every instance and every situation. There is a reason why there are so many "buying guides" out there in the wild, because everybody thinks they need something different.

I actually took @extropic commentary as sincere, even though the wet nurse phrase struck me as funny. I won't speak for him but the way I read his commentary is - while our helping efforts need to be straightforward, there is a fair amount of human complexity and psychology that should be considered - but that doesn't mean we must.

What I have read so far is there is a need to minimize the repeated questions, effort and dialogue put forth by existing, experienced members - and "wouldn't it be so nice" if new members put some initial effort in up front?

My efforts thus far have been to try and consolidate the submissions and ideas put forth by the concerned members. I felt like I could help since I'm the admin here. I will admit that I have a tendency to overdo things so I'll back off for some time to see what members who have contributed would like to see.

I will leave the group with this: there is now a sticky with draft instructions in this test sub-forum. There is a "simple" instruction for new members looking to buy a lathe and a "deep dive" for members looking to do more legwork (again, trying to strike a balanced approach for the many personalities that we will be introduced to here). I think we have achieved what I was hoping to achieve after lurking for a few days - and that is a starting point. I think @davidpbest did us all a good service by field testing it. I think there is room for improvement. I'm not attached to any of the ideas. This is our forum, so PLEASE speak up if this is over doing it. You will not hurt my feelings one bit.

 

[ArmyDoc]

I think it might be helpful if the read this first sticky thread "my first lathe work sheet" was labled "Choosing a lathe" and contained the materials for deciding on a lathe, like the questionaire, the reference that I wrote, the lathe spread sheet people have been working on, etc. It should be locked, so that people dont reply to it (which would make finding each of the reference materials submitted harder to find) Of course, I just replied to it so... well you see what I mean.

 

[Jim F]

Something else that would help.
Having members ask questions before telling someone to buy something.
You cannot tell someone that this or that is the way to go , without some info.

 

[Aaron_W]

I may have gone off the deep end on this list of "small" lathes.

In the end I made the criteria bench and table top machines, of no more than 600lbs, so there are a couple of 12 and 13" lathes in there. It also means the South Bend Heavy 10, a fairly popular smaller lathe is not included, because it was not (as far as I could find) ever sold as a bench model, only with an underdrive and cabinet. To me moving a lathe with a cabinet base adds another level of complexity, and is really getting away from my initial idea which was mostly focused on mini-lathes. You can blame Atlas / Sears and their relatively lightweight and popular 12" lathe for the mission creep, I was going to cut it off at 10".

This is also by no means meant to be all encompassing, I tried to leave it to machines that a search of Craigslist or Ebay (or similar) are likely to turn up on a regular basis, not list every lathe that might be out there. There are some great smalI lathes for a hobbyist that were only made in small numbers, but we have to leave some mystery to keep things interesting. I also did not include watch makers lathes, they are small but rather specialized and probably not what a first time lathe buyer is looking for.
I did get far more into the non-USA market lathes, than I had intended, but I found it kind of fascinating. Hopefully also useful to our non-USA members and some probably do turn up in the US from time to time. I also now find myself wanting a Myford 7 or a Danish SR80... The SR80 is not on the list, a little too obscure and I couldn't find enough info to complete the chart. Cool looking little lathe though.

The intent of the list is just to give a person some suggestions once they have an idea of their space, weight and budget constraints. A jumping off point for further research. I did not get into features like back gears, gap beds, the option to add a milling column etc (I probably would have but thankfully ran out of columns).

In all 119 lathes listed.

Data came from a variety of sources. The Lathes UK, and Vintage Machinery sites were invaluable for info on older machines, manufacturers and sales sites provided for most of the detail on the current crop of lathes. At least one member was kind enough to get me some measurements of their lathe. I'm sure there are some errors, but should be pretty close. All prices are in US dollars, even those not sold in the US. Again a jumping off point and using one currency makes comparisons easier.


Uploading two files, the first is a simpler 2 color list, grey and white rows to make it easier to stay in your lane when reading across the list. The second I added a color code, blue for current lathes you can buy new and grey for out of production lathes (they are old so grey ).

It was only after I finished that the history nerd in me realized I had selected the uniform colors of the American Civil War. Considering how contentious the new import vs old iron debate can get perhaps that is appropriate.

I'm also working on a version with metric values but thought I'd get these posted.


Comments, suggestions, criticisms welcome.

 

[Jim F]

! thing I did notice, SB9's have a MT3 HS taper, contrary to published data.
That is some awesome work you did there.

 

[Aaron_W]

! thing I did notice, SB9's have a MT3 HS taper, contrary to published data.
That is some awesome work you did there.

MT3 makes sense, that is what most lathes with a 3/4"-ish spindle bore have. I looked at several SB publications and they either didn't give the taper at all or said MT2. I wonder if at some point they were MT2 and then later increased it, or if it was a goof all along.

Looking at the date of yours, I'm guessing goof because I went back and found a pamphlet from 1935 and another from 1951. Both say MT2 and yours falls right between them.

I imagine then all the SB9 clones are also an MT3.


Thank you, you just can't beat having a thing right in front of you to verify the accuracy of documentation.

 

[Jim F]

@graham-xrf can verify, he has 2 earlier than mine that are MT3.