Unistrut Trolly

I totally agree with everyone, warning that no one should ever be under or in a position where a rigging failure would kill or injure themselves or others.
When I engineered the first setup I posted above, I did consult a Strut channel design guide and felt I was well within a reasonable margin of safety. I was more concerned with the HF winch failing than the channel or trollies.
 
About truss joists:
They optimize material usage. So the tension member (bottom 2x?) is more important to their structural integrity than the bottom of a 2x12. If I was worried about a hanging load on a truss joist I'd glue & screw plywood to each side of the web and make my connections between two joists on that.
It eliminates point loading and spreads the load between two joists. Properly done eliminating twist on the joists. Overkill, likely but no damage is being done to the joists. The joists themselves have a large margin of safety in the building code.
As for the use of Unistrut & their trolly system, I have no reason to not believe their load rating & margin of safety.
For my use of loading work pieces or accessories onto the mill or lathe, a system with just one trolly exceeds a reasonable expectation of possible loads. As too the idea that I would get the load swinging to the point of lateral stresses exceeding the load limits, I'd like to think I'm not that stupid. The highest risks are in the attachment of the load to the lifting device.
I can also see doing a system that operates in both axis like a bridge crane. Same rules apply.
 
To reinforce how we might look at roof and ceiling trusses, my 40x60 shop spans the 40-foot dimension with trusses. If they only had to hold up the roof on this shop building, the barn builder would have spaced them at probably 8 feet. But these trusses provide a second floor in the shop that is 16 feet wide in the middle of the span. The photo shows the subflooring of that second level. It’s load rating is 40 pounds/square foot in compliance with code. My watchmaking and ham radio stuff is up there—far less than 40psf. The side walls in that area has drywall over the bottom four feet. That’s why they spaced the trusses every two feet, and it explains how well the trusses are tied together—the Unistrut is attached to the bottom of the 2x12 bottom member right under where 3/4” t&g subfloor is nailed to the tops every 12”. And it’s right under the side wall of the upstairs loft. All of those aspects were part of my thinking.

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This isn’t for moving machine tools, of course. But I’m completely comfortable using it with a quarter-ton rating.

Rick “seeing folks routinely (and frighteningly) lift big V8 engines out of a car with a chain hoist thrown over a single 2x8 ceiling joist” Denney
 
I think I understand the difference now after looking into it... Channel strut is for mounting things, but door track is load rated and meant for moving hanging weight. It might be semantics, we call tissues Kleenex but there's a difference between single ply cheap hotel junk and the stuff I buy to put in my bathroom. So from this point forward, I will only consider door track- which is available at load ratings up to 5,000 lbs- that's a whopping distinction!

Here's what I'm up against. Would it be a bad idea to try to fasten track to this type of joist system? It's clearly not meant for a hanging load. I could anchor to the posts somehow. This space is 12x12 feet square, joists on 12" centers, and I would like to cover 8 to 10 feet of travel:

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Wow, I have never seen those used in residential construction, and they ran the wiring through the neutral axis of the beam. You pose an interesting question, I know those are very good for deck construction with good strength but I am not certain how you would attach to them without compromising the strength. I would think the manufacturer has data on those. If I were doing it, I would look at sistering 2X's on both sides of the web in a clamped glue joint then using a metal bracket that extends far enough up to allow a couple bolts to run through the neutral axis (usually the center) and attach the track to the brackets; but, I would research those first.
 
Wow, I have never seen those used in residential construction, and they ran the wiring through the neutral axis of the beam. You pose an interesting question, I know those are very good for deck construction with good strength but I am not certain how you would attach to them without compromising the strength. I would think the manufacturer has data on those. If I were doing it, I would look at sistering 2X's on both sides of the web in a clamped glue joint then using a metal bracket that extends far enough up to allow a couple bolts to run through the neutral axis (usually the center) and attach the track to the brackets; but, I would research those first.
I agree with your suggestions, particularly on adding a mounting surface to engineered wood-product I-beams used as ceiling joists. The strength of these is in the top and bottom flanges rather than the web, so I would sister 2x12 dimensional lumber to the sides of the I-beam with glued screws through the flanges into the opposite 2x12. They have very little lateral rigidity and are designed to be loaded vertically. Sistering dimensional lumber on the sides would greatly increase lateral rigidity and would provide a box section at the attachment point to prevent lateral instability.

I think I'd put a #10 structural screw every six inches along the top and bottom flanges, alternating from each side. A 4" screw that is countersunk should reach a good inch into the far 2-by after going through the flange of the I-beam. Those sistered lumber plates should be maybe a foot on either side of the track if it's crossing the joists at right angles. All fasteners attaching those to the sides of the I-beam should be loaded in shear, not in tension, which is why I'm imagining the screws going across the flange from one side to the other.

I loaded the lag screws holding my track to the bottom of 2x12's in tension, but that was dimensional lumber and done carefully after a lot of evaluation.

I would think a steel 3/8x4" flat bar cut 4-1/2" long to span across the width of the 2x12/I-beam/2x12 sandwich could be lagged into the 2x12's on either side of the I-beam using lags with 3" of thread into the wood. Fasten the hanger to the center of that strap.

The I-beam manufacturer might have a detail for this sort of thing in their literature, just as they do for drilling holes in the webs for wiring and plumbing.

Windy Hill Foundry has a Youtube from a week or two ago of installing a one-ton-rated U-channel track (heavier stuff than Unistrut, of course) and it was attached to the bottom of a steel wide-flange using what looked like a one-inch weld every foot or so. They rated that at one ton. They did not use a trolley that wrapped around the bottom flange of the I-beam, as most here would visualize. Clark wants to use that for moving loaded crucibles and sand molds to heavy for him to lift. We'll see if it falls down :) Obviously, that installation only loads the channel in bending for a foot between welds, and the main strength in bending comes from the steel beam. Similarly, a Unistrut trolley like mine loads the Unistrut in bending for two feet, but gets its main strength from the trusses. Both depend on the formed U-shape to support the trolley wheels without spreading or unfolding.

Rick "also not wanting to drill big holes in the flanges of an engineered wood-product I-beam without manufacturer approval" Denney
 
engineered wood I-beams are designed to be penetrated for wiring, plumbing pipes and even air conditioning ducts (very large I-beams). the penetrations need to be certain max sizes (usually 1-1/2" or less). the structural engineer of record will always need to be consulted on types, sizes and placement of penetrations. the truss packages usually include engineering documents that address these issues. the strength is not in the 2x wood plates which are laid flat, it is in the complete assembly.

Frank " former Construction Superintendent, Project Manager followed by 21 years as a VP of Construction".
 
engineered wood I-beams are designed to be penetrated for wiring, plumbing pipes and even air conditioning ducts (very large I-beams). the penetrations need to be certain max sizes (usually 1-1/2" or less). the structural engineer of record will always need to be consulted on types, sizes and placement of penetrations. the truss packages usually include engineering documents that address these issues. the strength is not in the 2x wood plates which are laid flat, it is in the complete assembly.

Frank " former Construction Superintendent, Project Manager followed by 21 years as a VP of Construction".
Let's be clear: The strength comes from the flanges, but it's the web that provides the depth that makes the flanges do their thing. The web's job is to hold the flanges apart from each other at the right distance without buckling. So, yes, it's the whole assembly that provides the strength, but a 1" sawcut through the bottom flange at mid-span will severely undermine the beam's strength while a 2" hole in the web at mid-depth above it won't to nearly the same extent. Notching the bottom of a joist is always the main no-no, particularly in the center third of the span.

Rick "if we are comparing credentials, civil engineer for 45 years licensed in five states" Denney
 
Rick, not a pissing match, I worked closely with Civil Engineers and Structural Engineers for decades. respect both, but the 2 don't necessarily cross over in my experience. most of my Projects were between 30 and 60 million dollars and would have 150 to 200 workmen involved and I had to be well versed in what they could and could not do, so I did my homework. and yes, you never cut the flanges. there are bending forces and shear.

I don't recall saying it was ok to cut a flange in my post.
 
Rick, not a pissing match, I worked closely with Civil Engineers and Structural Engineers for decades. respect both, but the 2 don't necessarily cross over in my experience. most of my Projects were between 30 and 60 million dollars and would have 150 to 200 workmen involved and I had to be well versed in what they could and could not do, so I did my homework. and yes, you never cut the flanges. there are bending forces and shear.

I don't recall saying it was ok to cut a flange in my post.
You indeed didn't say that and I was agreeing with what you wrote. I was just using that to highlight the importance of the flanges in the strength of the beam to support the comment I thought, probably mistakenly, you were challenging.

By the way, structures is one branch of civil engineering, and structural engineers are therefore civil engineers. It is certainly true that not all civil engineers are qualified to be structural engineers in practice, and it's also certainly true that many engineers shouldn't be allowed to hold a tool in their hands or venture out into the real world without a guardian. (Those kinds of engineers don't, I suspect, end up on the Hobby Machinist forum, where people need enough sense not to hurt themselves.) But all civil engineers will have had more coursework in structures, by far, than they did in my line of expertise, which is also part of civil engineering. I had to go to grad school for that. Simple beams of various shapes with uniform and point loads doesn't get past sophomore-level statics and mechanics of materials and junior-level structures, let alone into concrete and steel structures classes plus a lot more.

Story time: When I took the second of two engineering examinations leading to getting licensed (and this was, oh, 44 years ago), I had the option in those days of specifying a specialty area within civil engineering on which I would be tested. I, like all my mates, chose structural engineering because my coursework prepared me much more thoroughly for the test, and the principles were much more deterministic and well-documented. If I'd chosen my own practice area, it would have been full of opinions and questionable methodologies based on crappy statistics and obsolete data. I went, totally by accident, to perhaps what was at the time the premiere university in the world for my specialty that taught well beyond traditional methods, and I didn't want to have answer questions incorrectly to get them "right". (I now do that every two years when I take my continuing education for renewing my registrations, so I'm not guessing. Speaking of which, Michigan is due this month. Sigh.) But the structures version of the test included a few reinforced concrete problems, a few steel problems, a few fastener problems, a few general statics problems, and a few general civil problems, all of which could be answered from memory or out of the ACI Concrete Handbook, the AISC Steel Manual, and the like. And now I've dated myself, ha! The PE exams are certainly not like that now.

Rick "did spend a lot of time with pavement and bridge designs" Denney
 
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Engineering, brings to mind Millennium Tower in San Francisco.
 
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