TIG torch choices?

ericc said:
I have a 17. If it gets hot, the first thing I think about is my wallet. At the cost of argon refills, it will end up getting a hole burned through it.
Click to expand...
You have a point!
It seems the shield gas is also, wastefully, also the cooling breeze. Sure - there is the water cooled sort, which will also definitely impact the wallet. I have had the thought that by now, we might have seen invented some passive heat dissipation tricks, heat sink fins, the creative use of heat pipes, etc.

Blowing argon back into the atmosphere in the cause of providing an inert gas shield, is a 100% total loss system (just like my lathe oilers), and the fuel energy expended in dragging the argon out of the air is a major cost, not only to us, but to the environment. This is a pity! There seems no realistic practical way to contain and recover the shield gas from around the various shaped stuff we weld on.

What we are discussing are the (overheated hand) comfort benefits of using bigger torch size, higher flow, more resource-hungry kit, all because of the inability to extract and dissipate the heat. This is an unfortunate strategy when a smaller, less costly consuming torch, would be more appropriate, and very much desired, if only the darn thing would not get so hot!
 
General Zod said:
You can't have your cake and it eat too. In this game gotta pay to play.
Click to expand...
That be so true - so long as you are not interested in a game-changer! :)

If you had the choice of a tiny torch (for some things), that stayed stone cold, or indeed a range of torch sizes, would you not choose to expend only the argon you needed to keep your weld happy?
 
Both. There are times you need a tiny torch to reach into crevices...

uc



and there are times you need a big 500A water-cooled torch with 1/4" diameter tungstens...

uc



It's whatever the occasion calls for.
 
graham-xrf said:
So far, I am mostly striking out. These choices leave the questions..
1. Is the super flexible a good thing? Sure, but how good does it need to be for the price?
2. So far, I have not seen a setup that would simply connect up to in a working arrangement. What should I be aiming for?
3. What does "F" mean in WP-17FV ?
4. All the TIG torches I see look much the same, and are basically simple things. What features are worth taking the price beyond $120 or so?

I have not even started on all the other consumables. I see sets of quartz cups, and little pink cups, and "shorter" looking collet thingys, and I am thinking .. Hmm, do ceramic cups things actually "wear out"? At least I know tungsten is tungsten, but I am sure there will be types with additives.

This stuff may seem obvious to many, but I don't want to have to buy everything in the shop before I come up with the subset that works.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure all these have been answered directly (may have missed it).

Yes, super flexible is a good thing. Less flexible hoses are simply annoying and sometimes they can interfere with being able to move your torch hand smoothly.

The "F" in WP-17FV stands for "flex head" meaning you can adjust where the tungsten is pointed, which is very useful. It can save a lot of fatigue by putting the torch at just the right angle when you can't get it there with a natural hand/arm position. The "V" stands for valve and is required for welders that don't have an internal gas solenoid.

The quartz cups are nice when you want/need maximum visibility since you can see through them, and they also seem to reflect light back into the weld puddle as an added benefit. The downsides are that they cost more and can't handle as much heat as the pink ceramic alumina cups. Cups don't generally wear out, but they're pretty fragile and will often break if dropped on the ground/table, so you really want to keep spares. Cup size is mostly about amperage, material and stick out. For aluminum many people like a medium cup....say a #6. For steel 7 or 8 is a nice general purpose size. For stainless you want a big cup...8 or even bigger. Gas lenses are a popular option...shorter, fatter cups with diffusers. They give better gas coverage for a given flow rate and let you run less gas volume, greater stick out (or both). I like them because they're shorter and let me get closer to the work.

As far as tungsten selection goes, it's easy....buy some 2% Lanthanated in 3/32" and 1/16". You can weld anything with them using any machine and they'll be fine. At some point you might want to try something else, or add 1/8" for higher amperage work, but you won't be limited in any way for a long time (maybe never) with those first two on hand.

Later in the thread you mention cooling and there are solutions which don't require a cooler with a fan/radiator/pump. Some folks have hooked their machine to a fresh water supply with a solenoid controlled by the machine so water flows when there is an arc and the return line just runs to a drain. Others have used a pump and a larger reservoir so the volume of water in the reservoir acts as the heat sink. Imagine a 55 gallon barrel full of water being recirculated continuously....it would take a long time to get that much water hot. With that said, a dedicated cooler is a wonderful addition and I can't imagine every going back to an air-cooled setup unless I wanted to do something outside of the shop.
 
I used 2% lanthanated 1/8" diameter, on my Invertig 221 torture test @ 220A, and it did round off quite a bit, but then again it was an Ebay cheapie. Just FYI.
 
@G-ManBart :

Thank you for the very complete explanation, and stepping through the list of stuff one needs at the beginning. From all that I have gathered so far, I am thinking the expense of the super-flexible hose on-piece combined conductor and gas pipe seems justified. If I initially get the "separate-services-in-a sheath", or some heavy, hard to handle setup, then in the end, I can see myself purchasing again.

I can see how using a WP-26 gives some advantage over WP-17 in respect of a cooling strategy, but the WP-17 size is entirely adequate for the largest thicknesses I envisage, and is petite enough for the small size things I normally expect to be the usual fare.
It is also the recommended size of torch mentioned in the manual. Before I resort to something that is going to gobble gas, I am going to more deeply research water cooling.

The idea of pumping water around into a heatsink radiator solves the heat issue, hopefully not entirely at the expense of flexibility. I have already ordered the adapter. So far as I can tell, there may not be any much physical difference between a hose/conductor setup that can connect a WP-17 torch, as compared to a WP-26 torch. The bore in the hoses may be the same, even if the bores through the fittings are different. Can one have a hose/conductor that can accept either WP-17 or WP-26, just so long as the current carrying capacity is adequate?

I note that CK brands do not use the "WP" designation. They call it CK 17 instead.
I see WP-18 and WP-20 in there also
I am guessing that CK 9 is a smaller thing than WP-17.

We get pink cups, and we get quartz cups. So far, it seems the quartz advantage is see-thru which comes with fragility.
We get "stubbies". Is that a shortened assembly, cups and all?

Then there is gas lensing!

At least for now, I am checking out what it tales to have a water-cooled torch. It would be something involving plastic tubes, an aquarium-type pump, and some kind of radiator. I expect @DavidR8 may be considering a similar research :)

I can already guess that water cooling comes with the built-in assumption that it is always associated with bigger kit (bigger than WP-17). What exactly is the difference between WP-17 and WP-18?
I see for the first time, designation "SR-20", and water-cooled "NR-9"

Water cooling seems to revolve around WP-18, and WP-20. Does one use separate forward and return hoses? Can one get coaxial water hoses? Already, the loved flexibility is being traded off against the need not to burn the hand!
 
Last edited:
Water cooled torches typically have the power cable in the line that returns hot water from the torch and a cold line that goes from the output of the cooler to the torch, so yes to separate lines.

Prefixes on torch model numbers....CK, WP, etc are just brand/style identifiers, not sizes. The common air-cooled torch sizes are 9-series, 17-series and 26-series going from smallest to biggest. Common water-cooled torches are normally 20-series and 18-series going from smaller to bigger (yes, backwards from air-cooled).

The interesting thing is that the 20-series torch is the same size as a 9-series, so much smaller than even the 17-series and yet it can handle 250A. I'm running 20-series torches on two machines (one is 210A max and the other 310A max) and they never even get more than a touch warm.

For general hobby use I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better combination than a 20-series setup....small enough to get in tight spaces, but can handle some pretty serious amperage.
 
Last edited:
Again - thanks much for all the straight info.

Indeed, I was surprised that the "20" was so small, and that the "18" was bigger. The times I would get into welding aluminium fatter than about 3mm would be rare, and the welder is rated 200A, but I think the times one would be using 200A would also be few and far between.

I was thinking that if the torch (say a WP-17FV) got so hot it was getting hard to hold, even through a welding glove, then internally, there would be rubber and plastic parts starting to burn up.

I do like what I have discovered about the 20 series setup so far. Also, I note that one gets a much better deal if the whole water-cooled bundle is purchased at the same time. I am now trying to get some idea of the costs. Provided these are not stratospheric, then a water-cooled 20 series does seem to be the sort of kit one need only purchase once, and expect it to serve all I ever expect to do with it.
 
the 17 and 26 use completely different fittings. Also the internal conductor within the superflex cables are different sizes. So no, you won't be able to switch torches back-and-forth.

The difference between a 17 and an 18 is the 17 is an air cooled torch, rated at usually 150A. The 18 is a larger water-cooled torch, rated usually at 350A.

The difference in the names, as was stated, are just there to mix you up. In terms of physical sizes, for the most part:

WP9 = WP20 (for some odd reason, some people may call a 20-series a "water-cooled 9").
WP26 = WP18 (similar to above)

The 17 has no equivalent in the water-cooled realm, generally speaking. That's because the 20 and 18 cover a very wide variety of needs. No need for something in-between.

"Does one use separate forward and return hoses? Can one get coaxial water hoses?"

The coaxial aspect is with the conductor and the hot water return. The cool water cannot be coaxial with the hot water return, for it would negate proper functionality and cause a heat-exchange between the two. The heat exchange should naturally occur at the cooler.

A 20-series is all most would ever need. I use a weld-tec i-head Roto-head, but CK sells them as 'flex-loc's. 110% awesome. You can even change the head style to your liking: Either with the small 9/20 series consumables for smaller size, or the larger 17/18/26 consumables for a more robust package.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top