Threading without a thread dial.....

The simplest way to reverse the motor will be with a cross wired dpdt switch. The direction of running would be selected prior to energizing the motor. I did this on my drill press where the need to reverse the motor is infrequent. The more elegant way wwould be to use the traditional drum switch which uses a third set of contacts to allow reversing while energizing. There are also some configurable switches which can be panel mounted in place of an OEM panel mounted switch.such as this. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SWY67F2/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
The simplest way to reverse the motor will be with a cross wired dpdt switch. The direction of running would be selected prior to energizing the motor. I did this on my drill press where the need to reverse the motor is infrequent. The more elegant way wwould be to use the traditional drum switch which uses a third set of contacts to allow reversing while energizing. There are also some configurable switches which can be panel mounted in place of an OEM panel mounted switch.such as this. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SWY67F2/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Interesting to know that. I wired a DPDT switch into my furnace as a transfer switch for generator power. I sort of have a fear of bumping a traditional drum switch into reverse....I know by experience a reverse start in high gear will throw the chuck straight onto the ways....or in my case if your reaction is try to kill the power and catch the chuck before it slams the ways a nasty cut.


Anyway I appreciate the replies. I know this can be accomplished with parts.....I was really just wondering if there is another method for trivia purposes.
 
Interesting to know that. I wired a DPDT switch into my furnace as a transfer switch for generator power. I sort of have a fear of bumping a traditional drum switch into reverse....I know by experience a reverse start in high gear will throw the chuck straight onto the ways....or in my case if your reaction is try to kill the power and catch the chuck before it slams the ways a nasty cut.


Anyway I appreciate the replies. I know this can be accomplished with parts.....I was really just wondering if there is another method for trivia purposes.
Once the motor started, an induction motor will not attempt to reverse if the switch is reversed since the start winding is removed from the circuit by the centrifugal switch. When the motor slows nearly completely and restarted, it will start in reverse then.
 
Yes, you can thread without a threading dial or a reversing switch. It is called the "sharpie method". You will need two registration marks. One is not sufficient. One mark is on the chuck backplate, registering with the headstock. The second is on the carriage, registering with the ways. This seems too good to be true. How can just two sharpie marks keep the engagement of the half nuts in time with the chuck. No markings are necessary on the gears. In fact, it is best to keep the gear cover shut while threading, for safety reasons.

Why does this work? Well, lets do a little thought experiment. Suppose the half nuts are engaged right as the tool touches the workpiece. This won't happen, of course, since you need a little runway for comfort, but let's consider this situation anyway for simplicity. If you disengage the half nuts and roll the carriage back to the starting position, then start the lathe and engage exactly when the chuck sharpie marks line up, the workpiece will be at the correct place for the thread to start, and so will the tool, because it will have been rolled back to exactly that position. The threading tool must enter in the correct place. There is no other choice. If the lead screw is at the wrong "time" when the chuck marks are aligned, the half nuts will refuse to close. Do not force them! Just turn one more rotation, and see if they will close. They will eventually close. At that point, the tool will start cutting precisely at the entry point of the last cut. If you only have one set of marks, this won't be the case. You can get a situation in which the half nuts engage when the tool is at the wrong angular location with respect to the workpiece, and it will dig a new (unwanted) thread.

Maybe this hand-waving argument did not convince you. In that case, you can try it a few times, and that will convince you. If you are particularly skeptical (and I don't really like very skeptical people), you can try the following confidence builder. You will need two sharpies. Yes, I know, sharpies aren't cheap. But, only one of them has to be sharp and new. The second can be blunt and barely functional. If you are having difficulty obtaining two sharpies (I've been there, so don't stress), wait until you see them at a garage sale. A great opportunity is a teacher liquidating sharpies from the classroom. You can get a whole box for a few bucks. Most will be bad, but you only need one sharp nice one. Note that they don't have to be name brand. Bic brand will also work. Fasten the good one into the tool holder in place of a tool. Run through the process. In this case, it is safe to start right at the workpiece, since sharpie tips do not fracture if you accidentally ram them into the part like carbide inserts. Check for double tracking on repeated re-engagements. By carefully watching the carriage and the chuck positions, you will quickly become convinced of the soundness of this method. A good workpiece is a piece of white PVC pipe. You can usually obtain one of these for nearly free as an offcut, and visibility of sharpie marks of nearly any color is excellent. A black sharpie is not necessary to do this check. Also, one problem is that the mark on the ways may be difficult to place or even see if the ways are very oily. In that case, scrub the spot vigorously with a wadded up piece of paper. Cheap paper contains a lot of clay and silica and is slightly abrasive. Don't worry about ruining the accuracy of your lathe, because the place you will shine up is not a bearing surface. The blemish will be cosmetic only, as will the sharpie marks from your threading jobs. If too many sharpie marks are present due to a lot of threading, they are easy cleaned with solvent, or maybe it is time to get that reversing switch or threading dial.
 
Yes, you can thread without a threading dial or a reversing switch. It is called the "sharpie method". You will need two registration marks. One is not sufficient. One mark is on the chuck backplate, registering with the headstock. The second is on the carriage, registering with the ways. This seems too good to be true. How can just two sharpie marks keep the engagement of the half nuts in time with the chuck. No markings are necessary on the gears. In fact, it is best to keep the gear cover shut while threading, for safety reasons.

Why does this work? Well, lets do a little thought experiment. Suppose the half nuts are engaged right as the tool touches the workpiece. This won't happen, of course, since you need a little runway for comfort, but let's consider this situation anyway for simplicity. If you disengage the half nuts and roll the carriage back to the starting position, then start the lathe and engage exactly when the chuck sharpie marks line up, the workpiece will be at the correct place for the thread to start, and so will the tool, because it will have been rolled back to exactly that position. The threading tool must enter in the correct place. There is no other choice. If the lead screw is at the wrong "time" when the chuck marks are aligned, the half nuts will refuse to close. Do not force them! Just turn one more rotation, and see if they will close. They will eventually close. At that point, the tool will start cutting precisely at the entry point of the last cut. If you only have one set of marks, this won't be the case. You can get a situation in which the half nuts engage when the tool is at the wrong angular location with respect to the workpiece, and it will dig a new (unwanted) thread.

Maybe this hand-waving argument did not convince you. In that case, you can try it a few times, and that will convince you. If you are particularly skeptical (and I don't really like very skeptical people), you can try the following confidence builder. You will need two sharpies. Yes, I know, sharpies aren't cheap. But, only one of them has to be sharp and new. The second can be blunt and barely functional. If you are having difficulty obtaining two sharpies (I've been there, so don't stress), wait until you see them at a garage sale. A great opportunity is a teacher liquidating sharpies from the classroom. You can get a whole box for a few bucks. Most will be bad, but you only need one sharp nice one. Note that they don't have to be name brand. Bic brand will also work. Fasten the good one into the tool holder in place of a tool. Run through the process. In this case, it is safe to start right at the workpiece, since sharpie tips do not fracture if you accidentally ram them into the part like carbide inserts. Check for double tracking on repeated re-engagements. By carefully watching the carriage and the chuck positions, you will quickly become convinced of the soundness of this method. A good workpiece is a piece of white PVC pipe. You can usually obtain one of these for nearly free as an offcut, and visibility of sharpie marks of nearly any color is excellent. A black sharpie is not necessary to do this check. Also, one problem is that the mark on the ways may be difficult to place or even see if the ways are very oily. In that case, scrub the spot vigorously with a wadded up piece of paper. Cheap paper contains a lot of clay and silica and is slightly abrasive. Don't worry about ruining the accuracy of your lathe, because the place you will shine up is not a bearing surface. The blemish will be cosmetic only, as will the sharpie marks from your threading jobs. If too many sharpie marks are present due to a lot of threading, they are easy cleaned with solvent, or maybe it is time to get that reversing switch or threading dial.


Awesome info, and helpful thanks!

As stated I will probably buy a thread dial and or reverse switch, but I just wondered about what if....

For those who asked I got home and found my wire diagram :

20220722_123323.jpg
 
Looks like the red and black wires are the two reversing wires. If you are planning to purchase a drum switch, get the "chopstick style" aka 3-phase reversing style- it's the best choice for the motor you have. Here are the internal connections of the two common types:
-Mark
Drumstyles1.jpeg
 
Bear in mind that most or nearly all motors (single phase) do not instantly reverse, they need to slow down until the centrifugal starting switch reengages before it will start in reverse rotation; this is not so handy for many threading jobs due to the distinct possibility of crashes.
Another possibility is to realize that a thread dial measures inch distances against the lead screw, it is said that if one stopped the spindle and then disengaged the half nuts and moved the carriage back an even inch or inches, and re engaged the half nuts, you would be back in the original thread track upon re starting the spindle. Another thing is that if you are cutting a thread that is a factor of the lead screw, say you had a 8TPI leas screw, you could cut 8, 16, or 32 TPI closing the half nuts anywhere and it would track.
Thing is, casting all theoretical verbosity aside, the smart money is on getting a thread dial.
 
Thing is, casting all theoretical verbosity aside, the smart money is on getting a thread dial.

Yep. I don't mean to come off as cheap, but I've spent WAY over $500 on tooling for this lathe in the last month since I got it, stuff I found out I really "need" which as a newb I didn't figure....

I'm burned out spending and figuring on budgeting for later. A real Logan thread dial is $200+, or maybe find a used one on ebay, or accept 3d printed plastic of unknown quality ($50 wasted?)....ugh.
 
You don't need a fine sharpie. In fact a blunt one will be even better if you make the sharpie line nice and fat and then use a scribe to put a very fine line in the sharpie mark. Then use your fine line as the reference

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