The welder selection decisions?

[graham-xrf]

I love having both MIG and TIG capability.
MIG feels rushed somehow whereas TIG feels like meditation.

Yep - I can imagine that once the motor driven wire is coming out, everything from then on had better go exactly right! Relentless, like an assembly line. With TIG, a pause here and there is OK.
Are you sure it is meditation, or is it maybe weld admiration?

 

[Lo-Fi]

What are you planning on welding? A word of warning that stick welding anything under ~3mm is pure frustration. You're trying to juggle getting the arc started, which requires enough amps for a given rod, then travel as well as feed to keep the arc length correct. Too many amps and you'll just blow holes. Too few and the arc won't start. Choose a thinner rod, you're feeding it in an inch per second. With MIG, it starts and stops on the button. No sticking the rod to the work with the arc not starting, no accidental arc strikes because there's no way of turning the torch off, no slag obscuring the puddle, no smoke or possibility of including slag in your weld (assuming you prepped correctly). Arc welding is brutal, crude and causes the most heat distortion of any electric process. It's great for graunching into rusty old plate an inch thick outside in a gale, but realistically it's of limited use in a hobby shop where the alternatives are so much better suited to the environment and typical gauge of work. It has its place, of course, but that place really is outside the scope of most hobby projects.

I enjoy stick welding, but the same as gas welding, I treat it as an anachronism that's fun to play with, rather than something I'd choose when I want to get stuff done. 5mm plate or above is where it's actually useful, or if you don't care to clean up and prep. If I was making a sculpture out of bits of chopped up, rusty old skip, I'd choose stick every time. Quick frame out of crusty old pipe? Stick. Welding a car chassis or body? MIG. Frame made of box section? MIG. Sheet metal box? MIG. Weld a nut to a broken stud? MIG. Bits of a machine tool I'm making? TIG. Possibly TIG braze. MIG gets used 90% of my welding time. It's easy, quick and clean and you gain nothing by fighting with a stick welder that you don't learn with a MIG torch in your hand IMHO. Life is also too short for chipping slag

 

[Aaron_W]

Yep - I can imagine that once the motor driven wire is coming out, everything from then on had better go exactly right! Relentless, like an assembly line. With TIG, a pause here and there is OK.
Are you sure it is meditation, or is it maybe weld admiration?

You have to remember you are the boss with MIG, we go at my pace or I'll let go of the trigger.

I had that running away sensation at first (well still have it occasionally when I forget who is in charge), but once I got to the point where I understood that I could start and stop at my whim (no slag to remove) I just work in short sections 2-3 inches at most, and I get better welds that stay on the intended line of travel. When I get into that runaway mode it is usually because I tried to run a too long bead.

 

[Alcap]

Thanks to all those explaining how an inverter welder works , though most of it way way over my head . I have an older Hobart 170 mig , works well but I think the newer ones with variable voltage settings or more then the 4 that mine has might be better . Right now I have flux-core and saving the argon/co2 gas for doing work on clean/thinner material , also needed a welder for a small job away from th 220v the Hobart needs so bought a HF a/c wire feed welder https://www.harborfreight.com/flux-125-welder-63582.html?_br_psugg_q=welder It does a OK job , but should have spent the extra $ for the d/c onehttps://www.harborfreight.com/titanium-easy-flux-125-amp-welder-56355.html . I saw these little 220v inverter stick welders on Banggood , so cheap I just couldn't resist buying it to see if it was any good . https://www.banggood.com/MiniGB-ZX7...GCh03oAcnEAQYBiABEgI3dPD_BwE&cur_warehouse=CN Only used it once on some unknown steel with old 7014 rods . Couldn't believe how nice a bead I layed just the first pass , I haven't stick welded in years so I'm now a believer in those inverter welders . With the OP posters question , with the low cost on some of these , you might want to buy a wire feed and mini stick then spring for say a better tig when you feel ready .

 

[addertooth]

I am generally loathe to offer a budget selection. Most of the "welder evaluation websites" suggestions are horribly tainted (either through sponsorship by a specific vendor/vendors, or in the worst cases, are pretend evaluation sites put up by a manufacturer.

If I read your parameters correctly, you are wanting to stay under 800 Pounds of cost. This particular welder is mentioned on several sites and is spoken about with generally favorable terms. It supports MIG, TIG, Stick welding. It goes without saying it can run flux-core wire too. It supports an optional MIG spool gun for doing aluminum as well. This model is one of the types I call "semi-smart" as it allows the user to tell it the "process" he wants to use, and the machine sets default voltages and wire feeds it "believes" are ideal, but has a "menu" option to adjust the voltage to a more preferred choice (plus or minus ten percent). The machine will then adjust feed rate to what it thinks is correct. According to the reviewers, the semi-smart machine's best guess are good starting points for novice welders. It even has an "inductance" adjustment for fine tuning things, which is unusual in this price range.

It comes with the TIG torch (WP-17 type), MIG gun, and a Rod/electrode holder. It also has an unusually high quality return clamp (sometimes called a ground/earth clamp). It includes a ball-type flow gauge in the package too. It is kitted out fairly nicely, as so many budget kits make you purchase some of these items (especially the TIG torch) at an additional cost. The Spool gun, for MIG welding Aluminum, is available at a value price of about $145 US dollars.

The welder has a United States friendly feature which is of no use for you (it runs on 110 and 220). For Yanks who are not always near a 220 socket, this feature can have merit (although it can't run its rated maximum 200 amp current on 110VAC). I believe it can be purchased, and the optional spool gun for aluminum as a side purchase, for under your 800 pound price point.

I realize this link is a US seller (Amazon), however, it will give you the make/model and a general description for you to find one in your market.

Weldpro 200 MIG

 

[graham-xrf]

I am generally loathe to offer a budget selection. Most of the "welder evaluation websites" suggestions are horribly tainted (either through sponsorship by a specific vendor/vendors, or in the worst cases, are pretend evaluation sites put up by a manufacturer.

If I read your parameters correctly, you are wanting to stay under 800 Pounds of cost. This particular welder is mentioned on several sites and spoken about with generally favorable terms. It supports MIG, TIG, Stick welding. It goes without saying it can run flux-core wire too. It supports an optional MIG spool gun for doing aluminum as well. It is one of the types I call "semi-smart" as it allows the user to tell it the "process" he wants to use, and sets default voltages and wire feeds it "believes" are ideal, but has a "menu" option to adjust the voltage to a more preferred choice. The machine will then adjust feed rate to what it thinks is correct. According to the reviewers, the semi-smart machine's best guess are good starting points for novice welders.

It comes with the TIG torch, MIG gun, and a Rod holder. It also has an unusually high quality return clamp (sometimes called a ground clamp). It includes a ball-type flow gauge in the package too. It is kitted out fairly nicely, as so many budget kits make you purchase some of these items at an additional cost.

The welder has a United States friendly feature which is of no use for you (it runs on 110 and 220). For Yanks who are not always near a 220 socket, this feature can have merit. I believe it can be purchased, and the optional spool gun for aluminum as a side purchase, for under your 800 pound price point.

I realize this link is a US seller (Amazon), however, it will give you the make/model and a general description for you to find one in your market.
Weldpro 200 MIG

Thanks so much. You have hit exactly my thoughts. Quite early on, I ended up completely done with so-called "review" sites and videos. I would trust a description of experience and recommendation posted on this site by a regular member, and I believe I can trust pretty much all of them. If one of us bought, and regretted, and posted what the shortcomings were, I would expect it would not be done frivolously.

The £800+ welder was, for me, a perhaps a price too high for me, for what it does, as compared to several welders below £600 that seem to offer the same capability. I was having to look deeper at extra "features", or try to perceive "sheer build quality", perhaps only known from reputation.

We can also tell that the "budget" welders under £200 either offer with limits to functionality, constrained build quality, limited duty cycle, or other downsides. I think this is true, even if it comes from China!

New electronic technology, especially put in lower cost kit from East European countries, and China/Korea/Taiwan, can genuinely produce welders that are competitive while being lighter and lower cost, but one cannot pitch a whole lot of decision value on this. The reason is that the suppliers are generally more intent on driving the price down than using the advantage to enhance build quality. For putting a value judgement on budget welders, I have only partial statistics and hard knowledge. I have now overloaded from trawling welder advertisements, reviews, and explanations.

It's OK to go for a sub £200 budget welder. It will do some welds for you. If you want the welder to please you for years, I thing "budget" should have a reasonable base at about £250 (think around $330 to $340), but look close. If a $330 deal includes a whole bunch of extras, try and work back to the fraction of that represents the welder that these extras are in there to help shift. You will very likely discover that it is a MIG welder that has no way to connect gas - so call it "gasless"

Here is a "budget" welder I cannot recommend..
--> GASLESS MIG 130 from eBay UK Link
--> GASLESS MIG 130 from eBay USA Link
The only button it pushes is the low cost. $120 is a step so far that I think you only go here if you welds are all outside in the wind, and you don't want to use a gas bottle, and the welds you want to do are never going to need more than 130A and 1.5mm to 4mm (max). The duty cycle is 10% for a 120A weld, and 35% for a 60A weld. I am not sure how often a decent weld is 60A

I show the above for a very low cost example. At that price, one could invest in it as an additional welder purchased for a single welding job that happens to be out in the wind. At this price, there very likely will also be build quality compromises. It has a 1 year warranty.

Without it being a contest to find the cheapest offer, this one has to be right down there!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Look at Lincoln
Deliberately here, I do not yet approach the $1000 welder.
This welder is hard to search out on Amazon, but the deal is $687.27 from eBay, with free international shipping.
It's MIG and also TIG, and also polarity reversible. 180A. If you need to use stick out in the wind, it can do it.
You do need the 220/240V supply socket.
If USA welder wannabees check with local Lincoln outlets, the deal could get better.

--> Lincoln Bester 190C Multi-Process MIG UK eBay link. £515 free delivery
--> Lincoln Bester 190C Multi-Process MIG USA eBay link. £687.27 free international delivery

Is this the "everything" welder from a famous trusted brand, with 2 Year guarantee?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
There are, of course, dozens of others. Feel free to check them out. The features explanations that have happened in this thread provide lots of solid information to help folk chose on welders as applied to the kinds of welds and conditions, and additional essentials that will also come with a cost. The sheer number let you know that there is lots of competition to provide for home welder aspirations.

For my choice, it is a toss-up between the excellent stuff from R-Tech recommended by @Lo-Fi at the beginning of this thread, and the "do everything" Sherman MIG200HD.

It need not be that particular brand, but you can check off it's list of attributes, and take a glance at the price. Then, pick through Amazon, and eBay, looking for welders that "fit" that value, only because these two give you a swift look at what you can get, with real prices. Then you can look online with more specific keywords and model numbers, to find other outlets. It's better than being overwhelmed by keywording Google to look at "images" tab.

For the Sherman 200 - see posting #61.
For the Sherman 200HD "do anything" welder - see posting #64.



This one, for £329 (think about $439) is the one that has me most tempted. Partly from it's apparently being a full feature MIG, and TIG all in one, the price leaves room to go for the Lincoln Electric Viking auto-dark helmet.

There are also a whole bunch of impressive welders from MILLER, and HOBART .

 

[Lo-Fi]

I can't find much about the Sherman, but that also means nothing bad. As I said, the feature set is great and I can see some nicely made components. A really nice thing with the Euro torch and Dinse connections is if you buy yourself some nice leads and torches, they'll transfer right onto a new machine if you move on in the future.

Keep us posted with whatever you decide

 

[graham-xrf]

I can't find much about the Sherman, but that also means nothing bad. As I said, the feature set is great and I can see some nicely made components. A really nice thing with the Euro torch and Dinse connections is if you buy yourself some nice leads and torches, they'll transfer right onto a new machine if you move on in the future.

Keep us posted with whatever you decide

The Sherman 200HD is now out of stock on eBay
Searching "Sherman welder" on Amazon.co.uk yields variable ratings mostly 4/5 or 5/5. One lower rating was because "it kept blowing fuses"
One, for a £493 set that does TIG and stick, drew a 1/5 star rating with comment "Not fit for use in the UK don't waste your money". I dunno - maybe the bottle was incompatible with gas suppliers or something. It would have helped if he had said why. His rating seemed very out of step with all the others, but it was a TIG, not MIG.
--> Amazon Sherman TIG Pulsed MULTIPRO DC

When you said you regretted buying "multi-use", could you share what turned you off about it?

I am very attracted to having a single machine that can do it all, but I recognize the value of a machine doing one thing well.
In theory, provided one can stop the wire feed motor, connects up TIG handles, I can't yet see a fundamental reason why a MIG can't do TIG.

The other marginal concern, not only with Sherman, but indeed any welder, is efficiency. I don't really want to run more than the consumer unit trips. A 32A breaker should do, and if via the considerable feed length 45m of 10mm2 + about 7m of 6mm2, very likely a specified maximum of 33.5A would end up lower than 32A anyway. Most input currents would be in the 10A to 16A range.

The other feature I don't know about is pulsing. Adjustable 5Hz to 200Hz. Is this something that only applies to TIG? Is it worth having?

 

[Aaron_W]

The Sherman 200HD is now out of stock on eBay
Searching "Sherman welder" on Amazon.co.uk yields variable ratings mostly 4/5 or 5/5. One lower rating was because "it kept blowing fuses"
One, for a £493 set that does TIG and stick, drew a 1/5 star rating with comment "Not fit for use in the UK don't waste your money". I dunno - maybe the bottle was incompatible with gas suppliers or something. It would have helped if he had said why. His rating seemed very out of step with all the others, but it was a TIG, not MIG.
--> Amazon Sherman TIG Pulsed MULTIPRO DC

When you said you regretted buying "multi-use", could you share what turned you off about it?

I am very attracted to having a single machine that can do it all, but I recognize the value of a machine doing one thing well.
In theory, provided one can stop the wire feed motor, connects up TIG handles, I can't yet see a fundamental reason why a MIG can't do TIG.

The other marginal concern, not only with Sherman, but indeed any welder, is efficiency. I don't really want to run more than the consumer unit trips. A 32A breaker should do, and if via the considerable feed length 45m of 10mm2 + about 7m of 6mm2, very likely a specified maximum of 33.5A would end up lower than 32A anyway. Most input currents would be in the 10A to 16A range.

The other feature I don't know about is pulsing. Adjustable 5Hz to 200Hz. Is this something that only applies to TIG? Is it worth having?

On the pulsing, yes this is a nice feature. It is more common on TIG welders but some MIG welders have it as well. The idea behind pulsing is it varies the power to the welder to control heat, mostly useful for welding thinner materials. You can kind of do the same thing with TIG with the foot pedal, but not as quickly or precisely.


Something to consider with the multi-process machines, is there are different ways that companies "fit" two machines into one, and some methods are more desirable than others. I think this is part of the reason why you see some strong opinions on them as good or bad, it depends on how the one they used was put together.

Also keep in mind at any budget point you will be able to get a better single function machine than a multi-process. It isn't until your budget exceeds your single function machine needs that they really become a choice, rather than a compromise.

For what I spent on a multi-process I could have bought a much better MIG welder (more power, higher duty cycle, pulsed MIG). Nice machine but overkill for my needs. I also could have spent half as much to get a comparable MIG welder or 2/3 as much for a comparable TIG welder.

 

[Janderso]

Inverter machines seem to draw less power than transformer machines. Per the manual my Miller 220 only draws 22.4A running TIG @ 210A and 27.2A running MIG @200A.

Aaron, how do you measure amperage while welding?