Slant-Bed CNC Lathe Build

[barnbwt]

There is one GREAT, but expensive option. Camsoft is designed from the ground up to use CAM generated gcode and run Galil cards. It is the only thing I use on two CNC lathes and two CNC mills.

So, what's the relationship between Camsoft & Galil? Are they simply designed to work together, Camsoft the software side, Galil the hardware side, of machines built by the same folks? Or is Camsoft ported to a bunch of machines, including Galil (hence the cost, I imagine)?

I'm aware that Camsoft is very powerful (not that users don't still complain about it) but I don't know why they seem to have such exclusivity with the Galil controllers, which are after all fairly common and a good all around option for high quality budget jobs --except for the incredibly expensive software control.

 

[JimDawson]

............ but I don't know why they seem to have such exclusivity with the Galil controllers

I think I can answer that. They could have chosen to go with Delta Tau, G&L, Rexroth, Dynomotion, or any number of other motion control products. They probably had experience with Galil so went that direction. Each of the motion controllers that I mentioned would require a whole different set of software interface modules to be developed. Since this is the core of the system, it would be a major and time consuming effort to write software for each controller. Of the ones I mentioned, Galil is the easiest to work with, and I have written software for all of those. From a programmer perspective there is a long learning curve (months at best) associated with each controller.

My software would not work with any controller other than Galil products without a major rewrite.

 

[Karl_T]

Camsoft is optimized for use with Galil and servos. They do have a stepper box - stupid to go this way IMHO - no closed loop control. They also have their own proprietary servo card. It is less expensive than galil. I have not used it, but think a lot of functionality is lost.

Camsoft's other strength is interfacing with a number of I/O products and logic programming. Makes a PLC look like a toy. Galil is somewhat limited here. The real time motion control of galil and the logic control of camsoft is a powerful combination.

At one time there was another company with a PC host interface for Galil similar to what Jim has done. But they went out of business.

 

[barnbwt]

I understand the significant commitment of resources needed to get one of these interfaces programmed & running; it just seems like Galil has limited itself by operating sole-source through Camsoft. It's not like they would sell fewer motion controls --new or used-- if they'd developed an in-house alternative that functions off of standard post-code like DC_CNC can. I suppose it just wouldn't be any cheaper than CamSoft, is all.

I scored a rather good deal (by my estimation) on a controller to replace my mis-matched set; another Galil 2183, but fitted with the 20640 stepper board as well as a 4-axis servo drive board. All for less than I'd paid for the first 2183 with the incorrect daughter board connector. Evidently the daughter boards must be connected & configured at the factory, it's not something that can be done through Galil's publicly available configuration utilities. They really need to be more clear about that in their marketing, since they so strongly hyped the modular aspect of the 21X3 controller & daughter boards. I think the breakout board options can possibly be mixed & matched, but these driver boards cannot.

The 2183 board is still fine in its own right, it would just need external stepper or servo amplifiers to control. I think I'll hang onto the extra 20640 card in the (hopefully) unlikely event it's needed as a spare.

So at this point servos & steppers are *theoretically* equally viable options since no additional amplifiers for them would be needed. Now, whether they are financially viable is another question, not to mention whether the requisite down-gearing needed to get useful torque is something I have room for (physically or financially). Servos would definitely be cool, but I've also seen impressive results using steppers with micro-step drives.

 

[JimDawson]

I understand the significant commitment of resources needed to get one of these interfaces programmed & running; it just seems like Galil has limited itself by operating sole-source through Camsoft. It's not like they would sell fewer motion controls --new or used-- if they'd developed an in-house alternative that functions off of standard post-code like DC_CNC can. I suppose it just wouldn't be any cheaper than CamSoft, is all.

Many years ago I think they had a G code to DMC translator, but there are so many flavors of G code I can see that it would have been a monumental task to keep up with it, no two machines are exactly alike. That's why there is a special post processor for each machine manufacturer, and many times different posts for different models within a product line. The CNC machine market is a very small slice of the Galil total market and as far as I know there are no machine tool manufacturers that are using Galil products. I have installed about 70 Galil controllers in various machines only 5 of which are CNC machine tools. You'll find Galil products in everything from high speed factory automation machines, to medical systems, to missile tracking/targeting systems for the military. They are very adaptable devices.

 

[barnbwt]

Ah, so they don't actually market to the CNC crowd at all, but generalized automation applications; that makes a little more sense, though it does seem like a missed opportunity (granted, for a competitive market). You'd still think they would want to eventually base their interface around what is *today* a pretty standardized and stable machine programming language that many professionals are trained in. But I can see that for most of their applications you wouldn't be swapping programs to the same degree as a CNC mill; just program a a single routine for the task manually through GalilTools and its set up for (potentially) years. So the ease of programming aspect isn't as critical.

 

[JimDawson]

You'd still think they would want to eventually base their interface around what is *today* a pretty standardized and stable machine programming language that many professionals are trained in.

If you are referencing G code here, that is only used in CNC machine tools. G code is very limited in scope, and not very useful for most applications, but great for controlling a tool position.

 

[Karl_T]

Jim, you didn't start with that DMC translator for your project???

It was written in visual basic. source code popped right out of a decompiler. DAMHIKT camsoft is also largely written in visual basic but it has a large number of macros written in assembly language - those do not decompile.


Just another data point - Mach 4 tried to do Galil - they gave up. I was surprised here. I had thought the hobby crowd would have helped make this happen. But then Mach lost all its steam when the original author moved on.

I doubt Jim has plans to market his software to the general public. They would kill him with complaints. Getting a pc with HMI (human machine interface) and Galil card to make a machine with all sorts of hardware options work correctly is over the ability of most people. AND then they complain to the vendor.

 

[JimDawson]

Jim, you didn't start with that DMC translator for your project???

No, I wrote my own translator. Easier that way, not locked into someone else's idea of the way the world should work.

I doubt Jim has plans to market his software to the general public. They would kill him with complaints. Getting a pc with HMI (human machine interface) and Galil card to make a machine with all sorts of hardware options work correctly is over the ability of most people. AND then they complain to the vendor.

You are correct. That would make it a full time job and then some and there isn't enough money in it to make it worthwhile. I would rather give it away to a select few and just have some fun and make a few friends. I have sold software to the general public and I'll never do it again. Industrial customers are hard enough to deal with, and they pay well.

 

[Karl_T]

You are a better man than I am. Every time I help, they either are not happy or ask for more. In other words, no good deed goes unpunished.