Show Off You Ars

[Nogoingback]

That might make you a manufacter.

 

[Cadillac]

If you built them for yourself, you decide to serialize with whatever you decide. You send in the paperwork to register firearm then your free and clear. If you decide to sell one down the road so be it. I do not know what that number is to worry about manufacturing and sales.

 

[rwm]

Yes. ATF actually recommends that you put a serial number on 80% lowers. As far as I know, you cannot transfer them. That would make you a manufacturer legally speaking.

 

[Investigator]

I'm not sure why this information keeps getting repeated so often but it's wrong. You can transfer an 80% receiver or any other home built gun and it doesn't make you a manufacturer. At least not in and of itself. If I buy a 10-pack of the 80% receivers and complete them myself, and then I use my fiber laser engraver to mark them with various things......I'm not a manufacturer. Let's say some of those I mark with markings from Star Wars, calling them a Blast Tech DL44 (Han Solos famous handgun) and people think they are cool, and a buddy says he wants to buy one of them I can sell it to him and I'm still not a manufacturer. However, if I mark all 10 that way and sell all of most of them right away......now it really looks like I'm making them to sell and I'm a manufacturer.

With the ATF it's all about intent and what they can prove in court. The fact that you can sell 80%'s or any other home built gun has been well established. even by the ATF themselves.
Some examples to clarify:

• Build a home built firearm and keep it - not a manufacturer
• Build a home built firearm and after several years of use and ownership decide to sell it - not a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms give them as gifts to friends and family - not a manufacturer
• Build a single home built firearm and decide you don't like it so you sell it - still not a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms and sell them almost immediately -maybe a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms, sell them, use the profit to buy more and sell them - Manufacturer

I've built several 80% AR's, and I intend to build more. Mainly I build them so I can mark them however I want, does anyone else have a "Glock" AR in 9mm? I have one, and one in 5.56 because it's fun and cool. (to be fair I will have a rebuilt B'port clone mill marked as a "Binford" so I have a strange sense of humor). I would love to have AR's marked as being built by Mauser, Enfield, Winchester or Weatherby, or any other out of the ordinary makers I decide on. If at some point I tire of them and decide to sell, I will after fully disclosing what they are incase anyone thinks they are real.

Usually folks with good intentions spread the false information that you can't sell them or transfer them or things like that. I'm sure they believe what they are saying and mean well, but they are wrong.

For what it's worth not only have I built 80% firearms (AR lowers), I have also built several Form 1 suppressors, I have had an ATF Type 3 collectors license, and have gone so far as to speak to the ATF regarding getting my 07/02 manufacturer license so I can manufacture and sell not only firearms but suppressors as well and I work in local law enforcement. Take all that for whatever it's worth. I am not a lawyer so.....

 

[pontiac428]

There is a difference between federal law and state law. Federally, 80%-ers and ATF paperwork for serialization are still legal.

In WA, the new law prohibits home shop gunsmiths from serializing receivers, because they are not commercial manufacturers, as all receivers must be serialized by commercial manufacturers only. That means no more ATF form 1 serialization. We're hosed, completed 80% arms are now contraband.

Check out what William Kirk has to say on his YT channel for the latest updates, but the ball is rolling and can't be stopped.

 

[rwm]

Investigator- Good to know. Thank you for schooling me. I certainly do not want to be spreading misinformation.

 

[bretthl]

I'm not sure why this information keeps getting repeated so often but it's wrong. You can transfer an 80% receiver or any other home built gun and it doesn't make you a manufacturer. At least not in and of itself. If I buy a 10-pack of the 80% receivers and complete them myself, and then I use my fiber laser engraver to mark them with various things......I'm not a manufacturer. Let's say some of those I mark with markings from Star Wars, calling them a Blast Tech DL44 (Han Solos famous handgun) and people think they are cool, and a buddy says he wants to buy one of them I can sell it to him and I'm still not a manufacturer. However, if I mark all 10 that way and sell all of most of them right away......now it really looks like I'm making them to sell and I'm a manufacturer.

With the ATF it's all about intent and what they can prove in court. The fact that you can sell 80%'s or any other home built gun has been well established. even by the ATF themselves.
Some examples to clarify:

• Build a home built firearm and keep it - not a manufacturer
• Build a home built firearm and after several years of use and ownership decide to sell it - not a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms give them as gifts to friends and family - not a manufacturer
• Build a single home built firearm and decide you don't like it so you sell it - still not a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms and sell them almost immediately -maybe a manufacturer
• Build several home built firearms, sell them, use the profit to buy more and sell them - Manufacturer

I've built several 80% AR's, and I intend to build more. Mainly I build them so I can mark them however I want, does anyone else have a "Glock" AR in 9mm? I have one, and one in 5.56 because it's fun and cool. (to be fair I will have a rebuilt B'port clone mill marked as a "Binford" so I have a strange sense of humor). I would love to have AR's marked as being built by Mauser, Enfield, Winchester or Weatherby, or any other out of the ordinary makers I decide on. If at some point I tire of them and decide to sell, I will after fully disclosing what they are incase anyone thinks they are real.

Usually folks with good intentions spread the false information that you can't sell them or transfer them or things like that. I'm sure they believe what they are saying and mean well, but they are wrong.

For what it's worth not only have I built 80% firearms (AR lowers), I have also built several Form 1 suppressors, I have had an ATF Type 3 collectors license, and have gone so far as to speak to the ATF regarding getting my 07/02 manufacturer license so I can manufacture and sell not only firearms but suppressors as well and I work in local law enforcement. Take all that for whatever it's worth. I am not a lawyer so.....

Unfortunately all this goes out the window if ATF

NPRM 2021R-05​

becomes law on June 22, 2022.

 

[Investigator]

Unfortunately all this goes out the window if ATF

NPRM 2021R-05​

becomes law on June 22, 2022.

Actually all of that proposed rule only pertains to licensed manufactures. If you make it your self you don't have to change anything i stated above.

What the proposed rule will likely do is cause unfinished 80% AR receivers to be sold with a serial number and markings like a finished receiver. However you can still build one from scratch, a so called 0% build. And in the case of firearms other than AR's you could build your own.

The proposed rule doesn't change the law about selling, transferring, or gifting between individuals.

 

[Rick Leslie]

My advice is free so take it for what it's worth. As far as the ATF is concerned, if it's legal for you to own then you can build it, except for NFA weapons. That requires a license. There is also a gray area called "intent". I like to stay as far away from the gray areas as possible.
I didn't realize it had been so long since I started this thread.
Here's my Christmas gift this past year to our grandkids. All on 80% lowers with custom engraving for the markings. I can't believe I didn't get pics of the finished products.

 

[Rick Leslie]

Meant to clarify, they all got finished rifles. Now the whole family has AR fever!