PM-1440GT Accessories?

[Ischgl99]

Joe Pie is easier than Pieczynski his real name.

My joke went completely over your head.

 

[Beantown]

Now that you're mostly through the upgrade dream phase, and doing a bit of expectation limiting, I have a few additional comments.

The PM-1340GT is a terrific lathe - I love mine. Beyond the lack of a full universal gearbox that doesn't require gear changes for metric threading, it does have a few drawbacks worth thinking about. Namely:

• The Norton gearbox is housed in an open-bottom selector-switch system which needs oil delivery from above. The oil drips down through the gears, then onto/into the chip tray below. You need to apply oil to this manually from two sides of the headstock as described in the manual. Several of us here on H-M were frustrated by the poor oiling system that's inherent with this design, and implemented a one-shot system to make oiling easier and more consistent. These systems improve oil delivery, make it easier to stay compliance in how often you oil the gearbox, but do nothing to stop oil dripping out from below the gearbox. If you search the forum you'll discover many variations in how people have upgraded the 1340GT in this regard. In contrast, the PM-1440GT and Eisen 1440E have the main gearbox enclosed within the headstock and thus doesn't drip oil and has internal oil distribution. Acquaint yourself with this thread, and there are several others if you search. This isn't a huge deal, but you should be aware of this difference in machines as you deliberate.
• The controls for the 1340GT are enclosed in a pretty constrained box on the back of the headstock. Be sure to acquaint yourself with this thread and all the commentary that is part of it. Mark does an amazing job in making new controls systems for users, and unless you are particularly inclined to get a Ph.D in this topic, you might consider having him build a new controls system for you when you move to a VFD.
• IMO, the biggest weakness of the 1340GT and 1440GT is the compound sponginess. It's a very low profile design and if you crank the QCTP out in a cantilevered fashion, it will sag during moderate to heavy cutting operations. On a lot of lathe operations this isn't a big deal, but when it comes to parting, ID boring, and threading, it can really be a serious consideration. The compound rigidity is not something you'd have to consider if you got a 1440TL or ERL-1440. But, several of us have drastically improved the rigidity of the tool holding system by implementing a solid tool post substitute for the compound. Lots of detail on this in this thread and this thread. You'd need access to a mill to make your own solid tool post of course, but just be aware of the trade-off here between these lighter weight 1340/1440's like the E and GT models, and something in a different league like the 1440TL.
• Only you can put a value on the difference between the 5-year warranty provided by Precision Matthews with their Taiwanese machines, and the 1 year offered by Eisen. The PM-1440GT, with it's larger bore, shorter spindle, comes at a price. If you are a gunsmith, you'll know immediately what that's worth. If you aren't a gunsmith, you might never need either of those enhanced attributes.
• If you decide to go with the Dorian QCTP, I recommend you buy just the QCTP and not buy their "Started Kit" that includes an assortment of tool holders. You'll read more about this soon. LOL
• To be clear, the list of tooling I posted earlier in this thread was not intended to be encouragement to run out an buy all the stuff called out in the list. Rather, the intent was to lay out what I consider high quality options that represent good value over the long term. I'm a big believer in the "cry once" approach as you will soon see in my book. There is a lot of junk being sold and it's easy to get suckered into a particular brand name, or low price when doing comparisons.

Again, DM me if you want to deep dive into any of this offline.

More great info! Thanks you. I do think Gunsmithing is the main driver for getting a quality lathe, so it's something weighing heavily on my mind. Also why I have been looking at the PM GT series lathes. I can't wait to get your book. If it's 10% as helpful as your posts have been it will be money well spent.

I own the PM-1340GT and bought it with 3 phase motor and using Mark's write-up, installed Hitachi WJ200 VFD. I later installed Clough42's electronic lead screw and it removes the need to change gears for threading. It has worked flawlessly since installed, I may have $600 invested in it. You mention wanting the proximity stop setup. I thought I wanted the same thing. Ran across Joe Pie on youtube he was border line angry watching people thread toward the headstock. If you have a secure chuck there is a better way. I started threading away from chuck and never looked back. I have yet to find a downside. Eliminates the need for the proximity stop. I've done a lot of rifle barrels and made a lot of muzzle brakes, reamer stops, etc. 8 tpi to 40 tpi no problem. Inside/Outside threads no problem. Now as far as the plinth or toolpost replacement, I've got a very nice one made by a member here. I've used it 1 time and haven't had it installed in 1-1/2 years. When your chambering barrels your either cutting a cone bolt, 11 degree crown, something that requires cutting an angle and you need the compound. I just haven't seen a weakness with it for what I do. I originally bought the turning and theading kit from QMT when I got my PM-1340GT. I think I use 1 tool holder out of turning set and not sure I use anything out of the threading set. I did use the CCGT inserts that came with them but you can find same thing on Ebay for $2 each and again, I haven't ran into any downside with them for 416 stainless used in rifle barrels. There are tools out there that are not the Bentley line of tools and for these light weight lathes, at least for me, seem to work fine.

I have seen the ELS.....it is quite intriguing and certainly appeals to my nerdy side. That is something I need to research more. I have read some hit and miss experiences with the electronics. I'm pretty sure Clough42 lives near me as well. I had seen lots of his videos and then I realized I had seen him around before.

Interesting insight on the threading technique. I spent some time watching that video today. Makes a ton of sense. I guess I just don't know enough at this point to say much. I will go VFD out of the gate, but I think I need to learn the basics before I do some of these upgrades. I imagine I'll spend months just making chips on scrap before I make up my mind.

David wrote another excellent post, you could stay busy until your retirement doing all his upgrades lol. I use his posts as guidance and I’m slowly doing some of the things he has done to my lathe.

HA! I think I'd need a couple lifetimes to catch up with David! Holly molly that is an amazing machine he built.

If you are in the price range of the 1440GT, then there are a few other lathes in the same price range that are worth considering such as the Acra 1440C, 1440CVS, 1440TE and 1440TVS; Eisen 1440GE and 1440EV, the PM-1440TL which is a bit more. Also look at the price "as equipped" as some come with chucks and accessories that cost extra on other models. These are much more substantial lathes, but the major limitation is that being much heavier they cannot be delivered by a lift gate. So you either need to own/rent a fork lift or coordinate a rigger which can get expensive. If you are looking for a universal gearbox, i.e. no change gears then I would stay with the Sunmaster lathes which are branded as 1340ERL, RML, TRL, 1440C, 1440TE, 1440TL and a few other models depending on who is distributing them in the US. They all have universal gearboxes, so o change gears for imperial and metric threading. They are also available with factor VFD's (EV, CVS, TVS models), but typically will run around 2-2.5K more. If you are space limited, then these model may be a bit too big/heavy for you to deal with (there are 1430 models with special order), but then you are less likely to want to upgrade down the line.

I also recommend buying directly from the PM/QMT, Eisen, Acra as you will typically get better pricing and or a discount versus a machine distributor. Do not do an impulsive buy, if you have questions you can ask here or most HM members will be happy to talk to you off line. The other thing I would note is that wither you end up with a 1340GT or a 1440TL, it is the operator that determines the end product, the machine just gives you the capacity as to what to turn and the rate of metal removal, but will not make you a better machinist nor a higher level of precision. The 1340GT is a very good lathe, and what I started out with, I eventually replaced it with a Sunmaster lathe more because of an opportunity rather than a need. You can do a forum search on these lathes, there is a lot of information posted on these lathes and members experience. They are all excellent choices.

1440C Precision Gap Bed Engine Lathe – ACRA Machinery

acramachinery.com

1440TE Precision Gap Bed Engine Lathe (8 Speed) – ACRA Machinery

acramachinery.com

1440TVS Precision Variable Speed Gap Bed Engine Lathe – ACRA Machinery

acramachinery.com

EISEN 1440GE Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO, Made in Taiwan, One-Piece Cast Iron Base

BUILT FOR LONG LASTING PRECISION • One-piece cast iron machine base for ultimate rigidity and vibration dampening. • Hardened & ground bed ways. • Hardened & ground gears in headstock. • Precision taper roller bearings in headstock. • Only world class name brand bearings are used in the spindle...

eisenm.com

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base Made in Taiwan with One-Piece Cast Iron Base Inverter driven lathe can be used on 3-phase or 1-phase electricity EVS: Electronic Variable Speed • Two step electronic variable speed 36 ~ 2500 RPM. 
 • Low maintenance. Less...

eisenm.com

PM-1440TL 1640TL & 1660TL Ultra Precision Lathes – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

On the proximity stop system for lathes, for me it is more of an additional safety device, and allows one to do turning/threading to say a shoulder, internal boring or turning very close to the chuck without the fear of crashing the cutter. I have tried Joe Pies method for turning left hand threads away from the chuck, and found it to be a PTA to get the thread cutter to the same starting point on each pass, and ended up using the proximity stop to return the cutter to the same starting point. The same applies when doing external or internal threads to a shoulder, his method is less than desirable. It really comes down to the operator, your reflexes and degree of brain fog. I am 68, so I found my reflexes to not always be 100% and one wrong turning/threading pass and my project was toast.

As others have mentioned, buy the best you can afford/budget, and buy selectively. Turning cutters/kits, cheap chucks and tooling, are just that, might be attractive as I do not need to think about it, but at the end of the day you most likely upgrade and spend more. David Best's book is a very good primer on indexable tooling, and a guide to what he has had extensive experience with. It may sound like alphabet soup as to the indexable tooling and inserts, but once you get into it it al makes sense. Also, carbide inserts can last a very long time, if one goes bad during an operation, just replace it and keep going without losing the positioning. The tooling budget for a lathe is substantial, much more than you think, and the bigger the lathe the costlier the tooling. So a 1340GT/1440GT would use BXA size tooling, where the other lathes listed would use CXA and chucks may be more expensive in the larger sizes.

All this threading was done to a shoulder, the thread relief groove was minimal. I typically use the thread cutter to cut the end groove, so the repeat stop (or starting position if threading away from the chuck) needs to be within a few thousandths if you do not have a wider threading relief groove.
View attachment 460508

Hello! You and David are like a forum celebrity around here. I have been reading a ton of your historic posts. Primarily around the VFD conversions and your choice for your last lathe. If really got me thinking about other brands.

I must say....I'm still hesitant about the other brands. Mainly because there are so many unknowns and I have been researching PM for so long there is just some comfort there. The customer service and community support behind PM is really hard to look away from. Thank you for the advice on going direct with Eisen and Acra. That is where I have been most confused. I was looking for a distributor and really couldn't find anyone that sounded good. I'll get some quotes directly from Eisen and Acra now!

As I have been getting closer and closer to dropping some money down on a machine, I have been investigating the logistics of getting the new machine in my garage. It might be easier said than done. I live in a typical neighborhood built in the 90s. My driveway has a bit of steepness to it (certainly not flat) and my garage doors are pretty low. I do have access to a forklift....but I just measured and it's about 6" too tall to fit through the door. I would be able to get just about any machine from the truck to inside.....but moving the machine where I need it to be in my garage is scaring me silly right now.

Another point to consider, is you mentioned building custom guns. I think the lathe manufacturers have had record sales numbers for everyone thinking same thing. Gunsmithing work on a lathe is actually quite light duty unless your going to build Howitzers. Are you planning on 2" OD barrels? Are your going to chamber between centers or thru the headstock? If thru the headstock, the bigger the lathe, the further distance thru the headstock. How short of a barrel do you need to chamber/thread? With inboard and outboard spiders on a PM-1340GT around 18-19" is about as short as you can go without building extensions. The PM-1440GT is longer thru that area but not sure on specs. Just things to consider.

These are all important considerations for me. Gunsmithing is 100% what brought me to the dream of a lathe. Which is why I was specifically looking at the 1340GT\1440GT. You are right. I can't think of a single gun I would work on that would need the 2" bore. Heck even a .338 Lapua should do fine in the 1 9/16" bore. I'm still researching and learning about all that for sure. I'm not stranger to working on guns, but lathe work or "real gunsmithing" as I call it is 100% new to me....But what if I want to build a 50 cal?!?

Nevertheless, there are still some other options about the 1440GT that still has me leaning that way. I'm still on the fence! I have resorted to building a spreadsheet with all the options. Maybe that will help me think about it....

My joke went completely over your head.

Ooooh but I got it and giggled! I am a nerd and no stranger to a Pi joke!

 

[Ischgl99]

Ooooh but I got it and giggled! I am a nerd and no stranger to a Pi joke!

I’m glad my nerd joke wasn’t wasted lol

I'm pretty sure Clough42 lives near me as well.

That’s interesting, your handle indicates Boston, but Clough42’s accent is anything but Boston! I was thinking he was in Canada, but I may be mistaken about that.

 

[Beantown]

I’m glad my nerd joke wasn’t wasted lol


That’s interesting, your handle indicates Boston, but Clough42’s accent is anything but Boston! I was thinking he was in Canada, but I may be mistaken about that.

HA! Nope. Just a weird nickname my goofus wife gave me. I'm a 3rd generation Idaho boy. Hopefully I didn't just dox Clough42, but I'm pretty sure I found out he was in Idaho via one of his YouTube videos.

 

[xr650rRider]

Another lathe that's worth considering if you don't want to wire a VFD yourself.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1440hvt-2/

Shows in stock with cast iron base but you'll have to have a forklift to unload.

 

[chasz]

I own the PM-1340GT and bought it with 3 phase motor and using Mark's write-up, installed Hitachi WJ200 VFD. I later installed Clough42's electronic lead screw and it removes the need to change gears for threading. It has worked flawlessly since installed, I may have $600 invested in it. You mention wanting the proximity stop setup. I thought I wanted the same thing. Ran across Joe Pie on youtube he was border line angry watching people thread toward the headstock. If you have a secure chuck there is a better way. I started threading away from chuck and never looked back. I have yet to find a downside. Eliminates the need for the proximity stop. I've done a lot of rifle barrels and made a lot of muzzle brakes, reamer stops, etc. 8 tpi to 40 tpi no problem. Inside/Outside threads no problem. Now as far as the plinth or toolpost replacement, I've got a very nice one made by a member here. I've used it 1 time and haven't had it installed in 1-1/2 years. When your chambering barrels your either cutting a cone bolt, 11 degree crown, something that requires cutting an angle and you need the compound. I just haven't seen a weakness with it for what I do. I originally bought the turning and theading kit from QMT when I got my PM-1340GT. I think I use 1 tool holder out of turning set and not sure I use anything out of the threading set. I did use the CCGT inserts that came with them but you can find same thing on Ebay for $2 each and again, I haven't ran into any downside with them for 416 stainless used in rifle barrels. There are tools out there that are not the Bentley line of tools and for these light weight lathes, at least for me, seem to work fine.
As far as the oiler on the PM-1340GT. I like most installed a 1-shot oiler system, actually 3 or 4 shot oiler. While it looks like a big boy add-on, if you really boil it down to KISS, the original design of squirting oil into a hole on side of the headstock, the oil covers the plate and drips thru the holes and that design has worked for years on numerous lathes. It's not as elegant but not something you have to address immediately. Now oil not getting thru some of the tubing inside that's plugged with paint and grease is another issue.
I use an Aloris toolpost and have no problem with it. I did buy the starter kit that came with 8 toolholders. They are nice but there are alternatives that work well. I have a full set of 5C collets by 64ths, I have the full PM set of ER-40 collets both imperial and metric. I have a bison 5C collet chuck and PM's ER-40 chuck. While I like both, I seem to use the 5C more. I have a spin indexer that uses 5C and you can grip shorter items with the 5C.
One thing worth mentioning is PM, Precision Matthews, QMT, Quality machine tools all the same company. If you buy your lathe from them they were able to get just about any accessory you want. I got Bison chuck, Aloris toolpost and other items from them as cheap or cheaper than I found anywhere else. When it comes with lathe, you don't have to pay extra shipping. This was in the past and not sure they still do same thing but worth asking.

Your comment about the Clough42 Electronic Lead Screw caught my eye. I just brought home a like new PM-1236t and was disappointed when the owner talked about the hassle of swapping gears for metric threading. Several years ago I installed the Clough42 ELS on my Chinese 8x18 South Bend. It has been great and of course my first thought when I got the 1236 was “I wonder if anyone has put the ELS on one of these larger lathes”? Do you have any tips or links to help with this, or at least can you tell us what motor you used and if you’re happy with the power to the lead screw? I assume a bonus is not needing to oil the gearbox.

 

[Ischgl99]

Your comment about the Clough42 Electronic Lead Screw caught my eye. I just brought home a like new PM-1236t and was disappointed when the owner talked about the hassle of swapping gears for metric threading. Several years ago I installed the Clough42 ELS on my Chinese 8x18 South Bend. It has been great and of course my first thought when I got the 1236 was “I wonder if anyone has put the ELS on one of these larger lathes”? Do you have any tips or links to help with this, or at least can you tell us what motor you used and if you’re happy with the power to the lead screw? I assume a bonus is not needing to oil the gearbox.

I have a 1236T, it can be a bit of the PITA to switch from Imperial to metric, but you have to switch gears for other metric threads as well, one set of gears only gets you a partial metric range. What I end up doing is leaving it on the last thread I did until I need to change it again. It seems I always need to thread something that requires a gear change, so for the smaller threads, I use dies instead of single pointing them. I haven't done an electronic leadscrew yet, but every gear change I need to do pushes me closer to that lol.

 

[xr650rRider]

Your comment about the Clough42 Electronic Lead Screw caught my eye. I just brought home a like new PM-1236t and was disappointed when the owner talked about the hassle of swapping gears for metric threading. Several years ago I installed the Clough42 ELS on my Chinese 8x18 South Bend. It has been great and of course my first thought when I got the 1236 was “I wonder if anyone has put the ELS on one of these larger lathes”? Do you have any tips or links to help with this, or at least can you tell us what motor you used and if you’re happy with the power to the lead screw? I assume a bonus is not needing to oil the gearbox.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...crew-on-a-pm-machine.95057/page-2#post-883023

I used a NEMA 24 sized JMC iHSV60-30-40-48 400W integrated servo that has double the torque of the one that James used. It's listed in the thread above. It has plenty of torque for the PM-1340GT, turning or threading. I leave the gearbox in 6:1 reduction D-6. You still lube the gearbox as it's used.

I used 40 teeth 3M gears for 1:1 ratio on encoder and from servo to gearbox feed. Made a few code changes and it worked perfectly. I downloaded software from JMC and had a DTECH USB to RS-232 cable from Amazon, had to install Prolific driver from included CD but had no trouble communicating to servo and changing resolution to 500.
#define LEADSCREW_TPI 8
#define STEPPER_MICROSTEPS 6
#define STEPPER_RESOLUTION 500
#define STEPPER_MICROSTEPS_FEED STEPPER_MICROSTEPS * 4.2405

Nice thing, you could return to factory configuration in just a few minutes if you desired. I drilled and tapped cast iron base but other than cutting a notch in cover, nothing was modified on the machine.

 

[chasz]

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...crew-on-a-pm-machine.95057/page-2#post-883023

I used a JMC iHSV60-30-40-48 400W integrated servo that has double the torque of the one that James used. It's listed in the thread above. It has plenty of torque for the PM-1340GT, turning or threading. I leave the gearbox in 6:1 reduction D-6. You still lube the gearbox as it's used.

Nice thing, you could return to factory configuration in just a few minutes if you desired. I drilled and tapped cast iron base but other than cutting a notch in cover, nothing was modified on the machine.

Thanks. I hadn’t seen that thread and I’ll review it closely.

 

[Beantown]

Yea, that ELS is pretty cool. I could see that in the future. It would be a fun project as well. I love CNC action.