PM-1440GT Accessories?

[Beantown]

The 1340GT is the slightly bigger brother of my 1236T, it’s a great lathe that I think you will be happy with. Having enough money for tooling is just as important, if your business takes off and you need the larger capacity, you can always upgrade at a later date.

That is a good point. I just did that with my CNC plasma table. I had it for a couple years and broke even when I sold it. However, I think you guys are giving me too much credit on the business part, though.

When I say side gig, I largely mean just doing small projects here and there for friends and family. I will probably never get to a point where it's a real business. If it did...it probably wouldn't be fun anymore. Right now, I do some woodworking, metalworking, custom CNC, 3D design, 3D printing, etc. for people at times. I always recoup my material cost, but almost never labor my full labor. I take on projects that are fun and I can learn something with. That probably won't change much....I will just have time to do more of it when I retire.

 

[GeneT45]

I've only skimmed the foregoing, but my advice is to wait. Get your lathe, start turning useful metal into useless chips and *then* decide what accessories you need. I also got into machining via gunsmithing because I shoot competitively and the good gunsmiths were always backed up for quite a while. There is a ton of accessories that *I* think you'll want, but there's little consensus about how best to do things, so Welcome to the Fray! Do ignore any advice to run rampant with your credit card - I can just about guarantee that you'll regret it. Learning the basics (regular cutting, turning, etc) is golden and you don't need fancy gear to do it. Start slow, start small. Your budget can easily out-strip you abilities, but it is skill and not the latest insert or thingamajig that will make you a good machinist gunsmith.

GsT

 

[Beantown]

I've only skimmed the foregoing, but my advice is to wait. Get your lathe, start turning useful metal into useless chips and *then* decide what accessories you need. I also got into machining via gunsmithing because I shoot competitively and the good gunsmiths were always backed up for quite a while. There is a ton of accessories that *I* think you'll want, but there's little consensus about how best to do things, so Welcome to the Fray! Do ignore any advice to run rampant with your credit card - I can just about guarantee that you'll regret it. Learning the basics (regular cutting, turning, etc) is golden and you don't need fancy gear to do it. Start slow, start small. Your budget can easily out-strip you abilities, but it is skill and not the latest insert or thingamajig that will make you a good machinist gunsmith.

GsT

I think this is wise advice and something I need to hear right now. I have a tendency to get carried away in the beginning. I'd never fill up a credit card, but I have been known to spend money on a new hobby before I even know what I need. I end up wasting money on stuff I don't need and miss the things that I do need. My biggest limitation is shop space, so it's a hard lesson when I buy stuff I don't need.

I think I will start building my list of items along with my research, but I will start with the basics like you suggest and add to the pile as needed. David posted a very nice list of items he recommends starting with.

 

[davidpbest]

Now that you're mostly through the upgrade dream phase, and doing a bit of expectation limiting, I have a few additional comments.

The PM-1340GT is a terrific lathe - I love mine. Beyond the lack of a full universal gearbox that doesn't require gear changes for metric threading, it does have a few drawbacks worth thinking about. Namely:

• The Norton gearbox is housed in an open-bottom selector-switch system which needs oil delivery from above. The oil drips down through the gears, then onto/into the chip tray below. You need to apply oil to this manually from two sides of the headstock as described in the manual. Several of us here on H-M were frustrated by the poor oiling system that's inherent with this design, and implemented a one-shot system to make oiling easier and more consistent. These systems improve oil delivery, make it easier to stay compliance in how often you oil the gearbox, but do nothing to stop oil dripping out from below the gearbox. If you search the forum you'll discover many variations in how people have upgraded the 1340GT in this regard. In contrast, the PM-1440GT and Eisen 1440E have the main gearbox enclosed within the headstock and thus doesn't drip oil and has internal oil distribution. Acquaint yourself with this thread, and there are several others if you search. This isn't a huge deal, but you should be aware of this difference in machines as you deliberate.
• The controls for the 1340GT are enclosed in a pretty constrained box on the back of the headstock. Be sure to acquaint yourself with this thread and all the commentary that is part of it. Mark does an amazing job in making new controls systems for users, and unless you are particularly inclined to get a Ph.D in this topic, you might consider having him build a new controls system for you when you move to a VFD.
• IMO, the biggest weakness of the 1340GT and 1440GT is the compound sponginess. It's a very low profile design and if you crank the QCTP out in a cantilevered fashion, it will sag during moderate to heavy cutting operations. On a lot of lathe operations this isn't a big deal, but when it comes to parting, ID boring, and threading, it can really be a serious consideration. The compound rigidity is not something you'd have to consider if you got a 1440TL or ERL-1440. But, several of us have drastically improved the rigidity of the tool holding system by implementing a solid tool post substitute for the compound. Lots of detail on this in this thread and this thread. You'd need access to a mill to make your own solid tool post of course, but just be aware of the trade-off here between these lighter weight 1340/1440's like the E and GT models, and something in a different league like the 1440TL.
• Only you can put a value on the difference between the 5-year warranty provided by Precision Matthews with their Taiwanese machines, and the 1 year offered by Eisen. The PM-1440GT, with it's larger bore, shorter spindle, comes at a price. If you are a gunsmith, you'll know immediately what that's worth. If you aren't a gunsmith, you might never need either of those enhanced attributes.
• If you decide to go with the Dorian QCTP, I recommend you buy just the QCTP and not buy their "Started Kit" that includes an assortment of tool holders. You'll read more about this soon. LOL
• To be clear, the list of tooling I posted earlier in this thread was not intended to be encouragement to run out an buy all the stuff called out in the list. Rather, the intent was to lay out what I consider high quality options that represent good value over the long term. I'm a big believer in the "cry once" approach as you will soon see in my book. There is a lot of junk being sold and it's easy to get suckered into a particular brand name, or low price when doing comparisons.

Again, DM me if you want to deep dive into any of this offline.

 

[xr650rRider]

I own the PM-1340GT and bought it with 3 phase motor and using Mark's write-up, installed Hitachi WJ200 VFD. I later installed Clough42's electronic lead screw and it removes the need to change gears for threading. It has worked flawlessly since installed, I may have $600 invested in it. You mention wanting the proximity stop setup. I thought I wanted the same thing. Ran across Joe Pie on youtube he was border line angry watching people thread toward the headstock. If you have a secure chuck there is a better way. I started threading away from chuck and never looked back. I have yet to find a downside. Eliminates the need for the proximity stop. I've done a lot of rifle barrels and made a lot of muzzle brakes, reamer stops, etc. 8 tpi to 40 tpi no problem. Inside/Outside threads no problem. Now as far as the plinth or toolpost replacement, I've got a very nice one made by a member here. I've used it 1 time and haven't had it installed in 1-1/2 years. When your chambering barrels your either cutting a cone bolt, 11 degree crown, something that requires cutting an angle and you need the compound. I just haven't seen a weakness with it for what I do. I originally bought the turning and theading kit from QMT when I got my PM-1340GT. I think I use 1 tool holder out of turning set and not sure I use anything out of the threading set. I did use the CCGT inserts that came with them but you can find same thing on Ebay for $2 each and again, I haven't ran into any downside with them for 416 stainless used in rifle barrels. There are tools out there that are not the Bentley line of tools and for these light weight lathes, at least for me, seem to work fine.
As far as the oiler on the PM-1340GT. I like most installed a 1-shot oiler system, actually 3 or 4 shot oiler. While it looks like a big boy add-on, if you really boil it down to KISS, the original design of squirting oil into a hole on side of the headstock, the oil covers the plate and drips thru the holes and that design has worked for years on numerous lathes. It's not as elegant but not something you have to address immediately. Now oil not getting thru some of the tubing inside that's plugged with paint and grease is another issue.
I use an Aloris toolpost and have no problem with it. I did buy the starter kit that came with 8 toolholders. They are nice but there are alternatives that work well. I have a full set of 5C collets by 64ths, I have the full PM set of ER-40 collets both imperial and metric. I have a bison 5C collet chuck and PM's ER-40 chuck. While I like both, I seem to use the 5C more. I have a spin indexer that uses 5C and you can grip shorter items with the 5C.
One thing worth mentioning is PM, Precision Matthews, QMT, Quality machine tools all the same company. If you buy your lathe from them they were able to get just about any accessory you want. I got Bison chuck, Aloris toolpost and other items from them as cheap or cheaper than I found anywhere else. When it comes with lathe, you don't have to pay extra shipping. This was in the past and not sure they still do same thing but worth asking.

 

[Ischgl99]

David wrote another excellent post, you could stay busy until your retirement doing all his upgrades lol. I use his posts as guidance and I’m slowly doing some of the things he has done to my lathe.

I started threading away from chuck and never looked back. I have yet to find a downside.

I do mostly metric threading and Joe Pi’s method works well, but there is a catch. Since you need to keep the half nuts engaged, returning the carriage to the starting point requires you to use a jog button unless you are really good at stopping the carriage at the right starting point. When threading Imperial, you can disengage the half nuts and just return to a hard stop. I use both methods, but the proximity stop is looking a bit more attractive at this time because of this. Of course, if you don’t have a VFD to stop quickly with a proximity stop, then threading away from the chuck is definitely the way to go.

Another potential problem, you need a thread undercut for your starting spot to thread away from the chuck so that you can advance your tool to the next cutting depth when threading metric since the spindle is not rotating when doing that. Since your spindle is rotating with Imperial threads before you engage the half nuts, you would just cut the starting groove deeper each cut. If you don’t want an undercut, or the customer’s print doesn’t allow one, then I don’t see how that method would work in that situation.

I have a slight nitpick about Joe’s nickname, Joe Pie sounds like a baker, Joe Pi makes more sense for a machinist

 

[xr650rRider]

Joe Pie is easier than Pieczynski his real name. When keeping half-nut engaged, I go past start point, then roll chuck by hand to take-up backlash and get to 0 (start point). Since the VFD has an acceleration curve, you can plunge the tool on start takes a couple passes but you can thread with no relief if you desire. When not leaving half-nut engaged, your thread relief can be the width of insert at thread depth.

 

[mksj]

If you are in the price range of the 1440GT, then there are a few other lathes in the same price range that are worth considering such as the Acra 1440C, 1440CVS, 1440TE and 1440TVS; Eisen 1440GE and 1440EV, the PM-1440TL which is a bit more. Also look at the price "as equipped" as some come with chucks and accessories that cost extra on other models. These are much more substantial lathes, but the major limitation is that being much heavier they cannot be delivered by a lift gate. So you either need to own/rent a fork lift or coordinate a rigger which can get expensive. If you are looking for a universal gearbox, i.e. no change gears then I would stay with the Sunmaster lathes which are branded as 1340ERL, RML, TRL, 1440C, 1440TE, 1440TL and a few other models depending on who is distributing them in the US. They all have universal gearboxes, so o change gears for imperial and metric threading. They are also available with factor VFD's (EV, CVS, TVS models), but typically will run around 2-2.5K more. If you are space limited, then these model may be a bit too big/heavy for you to deal with (there are 1430 models with special order), but then you are less likely to want to upgrade down the line.

I also recommend buying directly from the PM/QMT, Eisen, Acra as you will typically get better pricing and or a discount versus a machine distributor. Do not do an impulsive buy, if you have questions you can ask here or most HM members will be happy to talk to you off line. The other thing I would note is that wither you end up with a 1340GT or a 1440TL, it is the operator that determines the end product, the machine just gives you the capacity as to what to turn and the rate of metal removal, but will not make you a better machinist nor a higher level of precision. The 1340GT is a very good lathe, and what I started out with, I eventually replaced it with a Sunmaster lathe more because of an opportunity rather than a need. You can do a forum search on these lathes, there is a lot of information posted on these lathes and members experience. They are all excellent choices.

1440C Precision Gap Bed Engine Lathe – ACRA Machinery

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1440TE Precision Gap Bed Engine Lathe (8 Speed) – ACRA Machinery

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1440TVS Precision Variable Speed Gap Bed Engine Lathe – ACRA Machinery

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EISEN 1440GE Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO, Made in Taiwan, One-Piece Cast Iron Base

BUILT FOR LONG LASTING PRECISION • One-piece cast iron machine base for ultimate rigidity and vibration dampening. • Hardened & ground bed ways. • Hardened & ground gears in headstock. • Precision taper roller bearings in headstock. • Only world class name brand bearings are used in the spindle...

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EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base Made in Taiwan with One-Piece Cast Iron Base Inverter driven lathe can be used on 3-phase or 1-phase electricity EVS: Electronic Variable Speed • Two step electronic variable speed 36 ~ 2500 RPM. 
 • Low maintenance. Less...

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PM-1440TL 1640TL & 1660TL Ultra Precision Lathes – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

On the proximity stop system for lathes, for me it is more of an additional safety device, and allows one to do turning/threading to say a shoulder, internal boring or turning very close to the chuck without the fear of crashing the cutter. I have tried Joe Pies method for turning left hand threads away from the chuck, and found it to be a PTA to get the thread cutter to the same starting point on each pass, and ended up using the proximity stop to return the cutter to the same starting point. The same applies when doing external or internal threads to a shoulder, his method is less than desirable. It really comes down to the operator, your reflexes and degree of brain fog. I am 68, so I found my reflexes to not always be 100% and one wrong turning/threading pass and my project was toast.

As others have mentioned, buy the best you can afford/budget, and buy selectively. Turning cutters/kits, cheap chucks and tooling, are just that, might be attractive as I do not need to think about it, but at the end of the day you most likely upgrade and spend more. David Best's book is a very good primer on indexable tooling, and a guide to what he has had extensive experience with. It may sound like alphabet soup as to the indexable tooling and inserts, but once you get into it it al makes sense. Also, carbide inserts can last a very long time, if one goes bad during an operation, just replace it and keep going without losing the positioning. The tooling budget for a lathe is substantial, much more than you think, and the bigger the lathe the costlier the tooling. So a 1340GT/1440GT would use BXA size tooling, where the other lathes listed would use CXA and chucks may be more expensive in the larger sizes.

All this threading was done to a shoulder, the thread relief groove was minimal. I typically use the thread cutter to cut the end groove, so the repeat stop (or starting position if threading away from the chuck) needs to be within a few thousandths if you do not have a wider threading relief groove.

 

[xr650rRider]

Thread starts using Joe Pie method couldn’t be simpler. I hear people say they’ve tried it but must not have tried it correctly is all I can determine. I use the DRO and set Y/Z0 to 0, then I return to 0 for each pass. I do NOT use the compound for threading. If you did, I can see where the trig might throw you.

 

[xr650rRider]

Another point to consider, is you mentioned building custom guns. I think the lathe manufacturers have had record sales numbers for everyone thinking same thing. Gunsmithing work on a lathe is actually quite light duty unless your going to build Howitzers. Are you planning on 2" OD barrels? Are your going to chamber between centers or thru the headstock? If thru the headstock, the bigger the lathe, the further distance thru the headstock. How short of a barrel do you need to chamber/thread? With inboard and outboard spiders on a PM-1340GT around 18-19" is about as short as you can go without building extensions. The PM-1440GT is longer thru that area but not sure on specs. Just things to consider.