Oh Say Can You See?

[Provincial]

From what I'm reading here most contributors aren't suffering from a hearing impairment, but rather have selective hearing. A hearing impairment is a defect in the ability to hear or comprehend sounds. Selective hearing is a defense mechanism passed down through the generations allowing a person or animal to identify and cope with possibly dangerous auditory information and fully recognize comforting or rewarding information.

Selective hearing is common among men, children, and pets. How many times have you told your children to either do something or avoid something and they do the exact opposite of what you're instructing them to do. Likewise for pets. Why is it your dog seems to ignore you when you're yelling at him at the top of your lungs to stop chewing on the shoe yet can hear the refrigerator door open from 2 rooms away. It's all a matter of selective hearing.

In many cases hearing aids confound the problem. The sounds you could once filter out as meaningless or dangerous to your health are now amplified making them harder to ignore. At one time hearing aid batteries didn't last very long allowing the user to sink back into a blissful state after a few days. More recently the lithium batteries last long enough between charges that there is little time for peace and silence.

I'm not saying that everyone out there has selective hearing, but I'm betting it's more common than most are willing to admit to.

That may be true, but I also cannot hear clearly when I am close to the person speaking, can see their lips, and am trying my best to hear and understand what they are saying.

Turning off my hearing aids when I want to tune out background noise is one way I deal with distractions. It also helps me ignore snoring beside me at night! There is at least some positive effect.

 

[K30]

In any case, your condition is a warning that side effects of other health problems can affect sensory systems, as many COVID sufferers found from losing sense of taste.

Fact. I want my bacon tasting back

Bonus though: can't smell skunk

 

[RJSakowski]

apparently, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. My wife will call out to me and I respond. Then she starts to talk and all I am hearing is some mumbling. I learned early in our marriage that it isn't wise to agree with something unless you fully understand what you're agreeing to. My response of late is the yell back, "I can't hear you". This is not tuning out. When we are watching some drama on tv, in most cases, I only catch the occasional word and so the quality of the production is largely diminished. On the other hand, I like to watch documentaries where the narrator is speaking clearly and there are few background sounds, if any, and I hear every word.

It has long been established that intelligence in human speech is carried in a fairly narrow band of frequencies. For many of us, we suffer hearing loss in that band. I can hear higher pitched sounds and can hear a clock ticking or bird chirping in the distance. I can also pick up on lower frequencies like 60 cycle hum. It's that mid range where everything is garbled.

The human brain has an ability to fill in missing bits in communication. Much of that comes from familiarity with the particular accent and dialect. When I visited my new relatives in the UK, I had difficulty following conversation because, although we spoke the same language (sort of), they all talked so fast. Interestingly, when they visited here, their comment was Americans talk so fast. Unfortunately, as I age,it becomes more difficult to separate background noise from communication. Having diminished hearing in that narrow band conveying intelligent speech doesn't help matters. Nor does the tinnitus problem. Just turning up the volume isn't an answer. It just makes the sound painful. At late night, I turn the tv volume down from 50% to around 25% or lower. and generally am OK with that.

So when I recover from the sticker shock from the eye wear purchase, I will begin the search for a hearing solution. Aside from cost, I am concerned about the best type of hearing aid; inner ear vs. ear bud vs. behind the ear. I have a problem with ear buds coming loose and falling out and definitely would need some assurance that it won't happen with an expensive appliance. I also don't want to be replacing batteries so rechargeable batteries is a plus. As to all the bells and whistles, I'm not too concerned there. I seldom listen to the radio and seldom am on the phone. I have bluetooth connected ear buds and headphones which I rarely use because I prefer to be aware of the sounds around me.

 

[Aaron David]

I have been wearing reading glasses since 5th grade, and bifocals from the age of 19. Dropping 7 hundred (before insurance) doesn't phase me at all by this point. Not only am I used to the gradual increase in cost as my prescription has changed, I know how badly I need them to see. No glasses, no life. Amortized over the two years between new pairs, it is roughly a dollar a day. I can live with that. And, due to the complexity of my needs, purchasing them online is not an option.

Another point, as everyone is looking at how cheap they can be made; you can get a part made in China, and it is cheap. But, making it yourself? Now, scale that up to a business. Still cheap?

 

[Janderso]

Not sure if others have this problem. My ex used to give important information in a low voice, of course I couldn't hear it very well so I would say pardon me. She would supposedly repeat it in a lower voice and the cycle would repeat itself. Along with her walking away speaking softer as She moved away. She was the only one I had this problem with, during that time I worked and interacted with 50-70 different people a day and had yearly hearing tests through work, no problems. She insisted I needed hearing aids. 20+ years later it's rare that I don't hear someone the first time. The fact of the matter it was all part of her passive aggressive personality and the games she liked to play to further her victimhood.

If you are having the same hearing issues with many get help, if only one or two people review your relationship.

Sounds like, “my ex”, is the positive force at work here.
Did I say that out loud?

 

[B2]

@Provincial

Dave, I thought I remembered seeing an article about stimulating the nerves past the hair sensors to restore lost hearing. At that time (years ago) it was still experimental, so it is possible that it is practical now.

Wow! This would mean sending signals directly to the 20K-30K individual nerves. I don't think so. Maybe 100 or so with a lot of effort and really only useful to those who have virtually no hearing at all or are totally deaf. The only thing like this that I am aware of is a Cochlear implant, see: https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/cochlear-implants , which is very serious surgical stuff : quote "A cochlear implant is a small, complex electronic device that can help to provide a sense of sound to a person who is profoundly deaf or severely hard-of-hearing." It has an electrode array/string that is placed inside and distributed along the Cochlea to try to try stimulate the nerve endings with electricity. So these are replacing the hair sensors where the hair sensors are located, not beyond them. Anyway, I have really good hearing ability compared to the many people who have had the Cochlear implant. I dare say it seems that none of us that are discussing this are so unlucky as to fall into this group. For those who need it I suspect it is a real blessing.

When more technically active I would attend various research conferences. I attended one (a couple of decades ago) on emerging sensor technologies and there were sessions on vision. There was work at trying to make a 2-D electrode array to be placed at the retina which could be electronically addressed. The array was made by some special Si processing steps to have 100-1000 sharp conducting points, with a large aspect ratio (Think of a bed of nails). Buried in the Si, behind these electrodes, was the electrical addressing lines and switches for these electrodes. This was to be implanted into the eye ball at the retina so that these points could stimulate the optical sensors. While they had made the array, there was no info on actually implanting data yet.

Wear ear protection!!!
Now a piece of advice for all of you who still have decent hearing or any hearing at all. Wear ear protection of some form when around loud sounds... like our milling machines. I have found that most of the "run of the mill" ear plugs are very uncomfortable. I used to travel a lot and the jet engine noise on the cross country flights was a killer for me. I found these ear plugs by Etymotic work well plus I can wear them for many hours without discomfort. It is all about the part that inserts into the ear canal. These seem to warm up with the body temperature and fit/mold to the ear canal surface. You can actually hear the noise slowly disappearing as they change shape! They do not fall out. These were especially designed for loud music performers. They can block about 15-20db across a reasonably flat spectrum of sounds. No other ear plugs do any better as it is at about 20db amplitude that the bone conduction takes over. For louder sounds, you need large ear covers, larger than the ear, head phone style sound blockers that also cover the skull bone just behind and above the ear. These help to block the sound from the skull bones that are near the ear. To get these larger head phones to really work even better you need to also add the all sound canceling electronics (not just noise canceling). Etymotic makes a number of products, but for me this simple passive device is the nuts.

https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20hd/ They are <$20 but last forever (I have had one pair > 20 years). They seem to be currently out of stock. Fortunately you can take them apart and wash them in warm water. They also come with a neck strap and a little flexible soft plastic case that you can carry in a pocket until you needed them. After many years in the pocket, my first case wore through and I purchased another pair just to get the case. They are worth every penny! They come in a couple of sizes which makes it a little tricky to figure out what you need for your sized ear canal. I carry a pair and have another at my mill.

Dave L.

 

[savarin]

I first damaged my hearing at a Led Zepplin gig in the very early 70's where I was sitting close to the main speaker bank.
Left the gig with my ears ringing.
The next time was also in the early 70's when I quit cooking for a couple of years and became a welder as I wanted to become an underwater welder working on the North sea gas rigs. I was welding inside a large steel container and another worker started grinding on the outside. Holy cow was that loud and the boss refused to supply PPE in those days.
A couple of months after that I perforated the oval window in the middle ear somehow when snorkling which put paid to becoming a commercial diver so back to the kitchens with some hearing loss and chronic tinnitus both of which have become worse as the years went by.
The tinnitus drives me nuts at times its so loud. I found I couldnt hear the tv (no big loss) so let the hearing clinic put me into aids, that didnt help much then I found it was the speakers that were breaking down and new tv solved that (after spending around $3500 on aids)
A couple of years ago I recieved new aids which the govt paid a substantial part of the bill, these are ok, although no bells or whistles, they only turn the volume up or down.
I dont use them all that often and dont really notice a problem when not wearing them.
I did notice a worsening in my bad ear a couple of weeks ago and thought it was a wax buildup, I have an ear syringe and gave a couple of blasts and blow me down with a feather out popped the soft flexible rubber end to the aid that had come off and eventually wound up burried deep down inside.
Instant hearing gain.
I think hearing clinics try to put everyone they test into aids, they keep pestering me to come in for re testing

Eye glasses in australia are subsidised but you can pay for extras. Its possible to get excellent glasses from around $150, then go as high as you want.
I wear trifocals and my vision is deteriorating with cataracts in both eyes.
The public system will pay for cataract surgery but not untill you lose all vision. My wife never had her eyes done till she suddenly realised she was blind in one eye whereupon they operated but there were complications due to how long they had left it. Solved and she now has pretty good vision.
I received my referral to a private surgeon yesterday as I do not want to wait till all vision is gone.
The cost to me will probably be around $5000 per eye with some refund from medicare.
Now the waiting game.

 

[B2]

Hi @RJSakowski

I can hear higher pitched sounds and can hear a clock ticking or bird chirping in the distance. I can also pick up on lower frequencies like 60 cycle hum. It's that mid range where everything is garbled.

This seems to be unusual and is interesting, but I will bet not unheard of... . I seem to have the same effect when I put the hearing aids in. However, the Bode plots for my hearing would not indicate that I should be able to hear anything above a one KHz even with the aids. Also, the programing for my aids is not suppose to provide any amplification beyond a couple of KHz.

Is it possible that some of your hearing loss did not come on slowly as is normal with age? Perhaps there was a mishap or illness that effected your ear differently? Maybe the sensors were not bad, but there was nerve damage. The ear, like most mammalian organs, are quite complex with lots of parts and functionality. Evolution pretty much optimizes these functions for survival. It is always amazing to see the details of how the body works. Also, not all of the simple drawings I have seen of the Cochlea are the same. They are commonly drawn to sort of look like a "Horn of Plenty"( where the high frequency sensors are located at the small end), but I have seen others that appear to loop back around so that the small end reconnects to near the stapes (stirrup) input to the Cochlea. However, most of these sketches probably a simplification. The shape of the Cochlea can modify the sound amplitudes as a function of frequency!

My initial problems came on suddenly and as mentioned I believe that they were associated with my TMJ. When I was trying to figure out what was causing these events I tried to ask many folks in the field questions. I came across a medical-physicist who worked in the field and he recommended a book that is really interesting. I can recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about this. The Author is Prof. C. Daniel Geisler. The Title is "From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear". It also has really nice illustrations so you can learn a lot by just looking at the sketches and reading a few words about them. The slip cover has a number of other related book titles listed. It is available at Amazon:

From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear: 9780195100259: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com

From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear: 9780195100259: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Dave L.

 

[RJSakowski]

Hi @RJSakowski

This seems to be unusual and is interesting, but I will bet not unheard of... . I seem to have the same effect when I put the hearing aids in. However, the Bode plots for my hearing would not indicate that I should be able to hear anything above a one KHz even with the aids. Also, the programing for my aids is not suppose to provide any amplification beyond a couple of KHz.

Is it possible that some of your hearing loss did not come on slowly as is normal with age? Perhaps there was a mishap or illness that effected your ear differently? Maybe the sensors were not bad, but there was nerve damage. The ear, like most mammalian organs, are quite complex with lots of parts and functionality. Evolution pretty much optimizes these functions for survival. It is always amazing to see the details of how the body works. Also, not all of the simple drawings I have seen of the Cochlea are the same. They are commonly drawn to sort of look like a "Horn of Plenty"( where the high frequency sensors are located at the small end), but I have seen others that appear to loop back around so that the small end reconnects to near the stapes (stirrup) input to the Cochlea. However, most of My initial these sketches probably a simplification. The shape of the Cochlea can modify the sound amplitudes as a function of frequency!

My initial problems came on suddenly and as mentioned I believe that they were associated with my TMJ. When I was trying to figure out what was causing these events I tried to ask many folks in the field questions. I came across a medical-physicist who worked in the field and he recommended a book that is really interesting. I can recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about this. The Author is Prof. C. Daniel Geisler. The Title is "From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear". It also has really nice illustrations so you can learn a lot by just looking at the sketches and reading a few words about them. The slip cover has a number of other related book titles listed. It is available at Amazon:

From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear: 9780195100259: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com

From Sound to Synapse: Physiology of the Mammalian Ear: 9780195100259: Medicine & Health Science Books @ Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Dave L.

Thanks, Dave

The initial cause of my tinnitus occurred when I foolishly dispatched a deer by holding my .308 muzzle about 4" from the deer's head. The muzzle blast reflected back resulting in a ringing that has persisted for 45 years. The frequency is somewhere around 5,000 hz. In a much later episode., my neighbor returned a borrowed cement mixer with set concrete in it and I was banning the side of the drum with a three lb. hammer to break it up. The drum was like a large bell. That created a resonance that was around 300 hz, accentuating any sound at that frequency. That eventually went away. Bandging on an anvil trough the years most likely didn't help matters either.

For all practical purposes, my hearing cuts out at around 8,000 hz on the upper end. There are bands in the 300 -600 hz range that are significantly less sensitive. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of the intelligence in human speech occurs.

 

[B2]

Hi Folks,

Given the conversations I thought you might enjoy ....