New atlas lathe new hobbyist

[SouthernChap]

@ Southernchap Thats the one. I was waiting to see what was at the show to see if it was better to get new Mitutoyo or second hand moore and wright / starrett from someone like home and workshop. Same with dial gauge and micrometer.

cromwells used to have a store near me but its long gone i did have a contact that worked for delphi that could get his hands on them but he has since left there and moved on to pastures new

I'd be a little wary of Home and Workshop. The brothers are nice guys to have a chat with and their yard and building is rammed with interesting stuff, but they're happy to sell the willing and unwary less than ideal kit; very much caveat emptor. They do respond okay to some haggling but then they are on the pricey side to begin with.

Is there a reason you don't fancy buying via websites? All the companies I mentioned have web sales. Oh and I forgot RotaGrip in Brum. Ian seems a solid, genuine guy (when I popped in there last week, I was amazed at the number of used machines he had stuffed into his building; will definitely give him a bell when I look to buy a new lathe to replace my little Chinese 7x, next year).

 

[cooper1203]

i once had a mk2 scirocco press car had less than 50k on the clock because it had been stood for 20 years i rebuilt the engine 9new gaskets etc) i had a "facom" torque wrench that was bought from a website makred down on sale fakeom is more like it. snapped the cam carrier studs right out the casting always been weary after that i like to look at the thing im buying

 

[SouthernChap]

i once had a mk2 scirocco press car had less than 50k on the clock because it had been stood for 20 years i rebuilt the engine 9new gaskets etc) i had a "facom" torque wrench that was bought from a website makred down on sale fakeom is more like it. snapped the cam carrier studs right out the casting always been weary after that i like to look at the thing im buying

All the companies I mentioned are legit and well known.

Honestly, even in the States, if people restricted themselves to just buying from bricks and mortar shops, their workshops would be a lot more empty. Here in the UK you are going to struggle to get what you need if you rely only on shops that you can walk in to.

In fact, given that in the UK, most of the places that have enough physical outlets to make visiting them practical will be generic DIY places, you're more likely to end up with junk.

Besides, you won't always be able to tell for sure that something is good by visual inspection. You walk in somewhere to buy a set of parallels, the only way you'll know how 'parallel' they are is to take a dial test indicator, and indicator stand and surface plate with you. Or say, buying a dial indicator: Machine Mart sells Clarke dial indicators; there's probably a Machine Mart near you. You can't know by looking that those Clarke indicators will probably have been spottily and poorly QC'd and will only last a year or two before they get crunchy and sticky.

Now, I'll grant that even the legit online companies will sell kit that's at varying levels of quality, but you can look at the prices and work out those quality levels yourself, or if you're not sure, ask on here.

A lot of products these days are made in China but that doesn't automatically mean junk. The Chinese can make decent quality stuff, we just have to pay sensible money for it.

Even with 'reputable' brands there's counterfeit items to consider. A £20 "Mitutoyo" dial indicator say, will be a fake, a genuine Mitutoyo dial indicator will cost double that. Fake Mitutoyo digital calipers are ubiquitous these days, you pretty much have to buy from a limited set of companies like Digital Micrometer Limited (or, if you're willing to pay a little bit more to be 100% sure, from Mitutoyo's own .co.uk website).

Or consider Starrett, a totally reputable brand. Some of their offerings are now made in China and are not the quality you'd expect from Starrett.

Without online sales, the world of hobbyist machining would be much less interesting and companies like Eccentric Engineering or Hemingway, who's products are beloved would struggle to exist.

You can buy online and be confident that you're getting what you paid for, you just have to verify the legitimacy of the company and the quality off the product. That's one of benefits of being on this forum. You can ask and someone generally will be able to give you a decent steer.

 

[cooper1203]

I didnt mean to knock your recommendations sorry. What i was getting at was if one can look at stuff you can get an idea of if its worth it. for example as i am sure you know rdg tools sell moore and wright they also sell dasqua. Not knocking dasqua but from the price alone im guessing they wont be as good as moore and wright stuff yet all the tolerances are similar.

I have the mentality of (maybe wrongly) clarke type stuff is "disposable" fine for bodge it and bash it jobs and when it breaks it breaks but for stuff that matters its worth spending the money and get stuff that is high quality and repairable.

 

[ptross]

I have gotten a number of fine used tools through ebayUK, even though I am in the States. Well known names like Moore & Wright, Mitutoyo, Shardlow, and others are regularly listed by UK sellers for a small fraction of the prices when new. Overall, I've been very happy with seller's descriptions and photos. there are very few knockoffs of good quality vintage tools, I think you can trust what you see.

 

[cooper1203]

todays disappointment is i managed to get the lead screw out and the apron off the saddle only to find the casting that holds the power transmission for the power feed is broken. someone has attempted a repair with a strap and that has broken too. unfortunately when they put the bigger gear back on the shaft they went mad staking it so its not going to be easy to get it off which needs to happen to remove the remnants of the strap

 

[Jake M]

.....i didnt realise they did a de-greaser but when i googled wd40.....

Im a big fan of the actual WD40 lubricant as a de greaser. (And it's pretty OK ish for cutting aluminum if you're minimizing how much stuff you keep). It's very kerosene like in it's overall characteristics. But that's not my tip because it "may" not apply. I'm at the end of my chemestry and I still haven't worked out the MSDS on your end, but at this point I'm pretty sure that "your" WD40 is not the same product that we buy here. Although there's a good chance they are trying to make it do the same things...?

Anyhow, I get that and any shop chemical that I can in one gallon jugs, or smaller cans if I can. Then and use a manual spray bottle. Much less cost per volume (check your local stuff, I'm a long ways away...), and much less atomization when it sprays. Which means it gets on less "other things", it doesn't "float" around a room so much, settles WAY quicker so it doesn't travel through vents, and the smell goes away a lot quicker. That tip goes for most shop spray can chemicals.. If you get them into a manual spray bottle for it, it's pretty much always better that way in a small shop.

 

[SouthernChap]

I didnt mean to knock your recommendations sorry. What i was getting at was if one can look at stuff you can get an idea of if its worth it. for example as i am sure you know rdg tools sell moore and wright they also sell dasqua. Not knocking dasqua but from the price alone im guessing they wont be as good as moore and wright stuff yet all the tolerances are similar.

I have the mentality of (maybe wrongly) clarke type stuff is "disposable" fine for bodge it and bash it jobs and when it breaks it breaks but for stuff that matters its worth spending the money and get stuff that is high quality and repairable.

I didn't think you were. These days it's definitely a case of verify before you trust and I'm happy to reassure.

Dasqua metrology kit is actually fine. Sure it's not Mitutoyo (let alone Compac or Tesa) but for hobbyist use, the general consensus is that their kit is decent quality and reasonably durable. I have some Dasqua 25-50-75 blocks, a 0.01 mm dial indicator and a 0.01 dial test indicator. The latter two seem to match pretty much the readings I get from my Mitutoyo and Compac indicators.

However, Moore and Wright is a mixed bag. From everything I've read and one thing I've experienced (a new 150 mm M&W square that most definitely wasn't square), just like Starrett, their modern metrology kit is not the kit it was. M&W seem to be trading on an old name and reputation rather than on the quality of their current products.

Now, you can go the route of buying used, old name brands but that can be risky. Items like squares can be out of square due to wear and abuse (I have three old M&W squares that don't pass muster). Dial indicators can range from a bit grimy, sludged up and sticky (which can generally be solved with a bit of a clean) to totally shagged due to having suffered 'clumsy handling'.

On the other hand, things like radius gauges and screw thread gauges are pretty durable so those are generally fine to buy from eBay so long as the pictures gave a decent account of their state (often it's just a bit of a clean up that's needed).

You can't really go wrong with genuine Mitutoyo metrology kit and for all the standard metrology stuff, they're not that expensive. The more exotic kit is expensive (like gauge blocks or pin gauges or surface plates for example) but you probably don't need to worry about getting those right now (he says hypocritically, sat next to his 3' x 2' surface plate! ).

For stuff like squares, dividers and the like, have a look at K-Met (or Kinex as they were known), they're a Czech company who make very competitively priced products of good quality.

Buying new metrology is made much easier by the fact that if you're not sure about a brand, you can ask on here.

p.s. Possibly controversial opinion but, right now, you (and this applies to me, too) don't need a dial test indicator, dial indicator or micrometer that reads at a resolution greater than 0.01 mm or 0.0005".

 

[cooper1203]

p.s. Possibly controversial opinion but, right now, you (and this applies to me, too) don't need a dial test indicator, dial indicator or micrometer that reads at a resolution greater than 0.01 mm or 0.0005".

i did think about that. However i tend to agree with the kit i am going to have (a function of space and cost) ie a lathe and mill etc i doubt i would be able to do much about fractions of a thou. Also all the plans i have seen on the internet or in books for hot air engines if tolerances are given its +/- 2 thou or more

 

[cooper1203]

If anyone is a member of the io group mentioned above please could they give the moderators a nudge as i am still waiting for approval to join