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Models for grinding HSS Lathe Tools
- Thread starter mikey
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,422
HUMBLE PIE
I looked all over my shop and couldn't find my early lathe tools. I wanted to show them to you guys so you know that we all start at the same place and that there is a good chance that I hold the title for THE worst lathe tools ever ground. Anyway, I finally remembered (Oh yeah? Wait until you pass 65 years of age) that I might have given them to a friend who was going to grind over them and use them on his little Sherline lathe. This must have been over 20 years ago. It was a long shot but I called and asked if he still had any of them and he said he did. I arranged to pick them up tonight. He wasn't home (went out for dinner) but he did leave me this note:
Mike, I never re-ground these tools (so don't blame me). I kept them to cheer me up whenever things got really bad in life; every time I looked at them they reminded me that things can always be worse! I have to admit that you really, really, really sucked at tool grinding back then and I cannot believe you would willingly show these tools to people on an international forum. Have you no pride? On the other hand, it may be useful to show them that one really can rise from the depths of total suckage so they shouldn't quit. Yeah, encourage them, okay? Just remember to take responsibility for these things now; DO NOT BLAME ME FOR THIS.
Your lovingly kind, supportive and gentle friend,
Bonehead (not his real name but appropriately descriptive)
This is his actual note, verbatim! I swear, even I can't make up that kind of crap ... the depths of total suckage must be his idea of waxing poetic or something. Sheesh! In his defense, Bonehead grinds nice tools (but only because he learned from me in case he reads this).
Anyway, here are my earliest tools. I was trying to duplicate some tools from Sherline and not surprisingly, they caused severe chatter at small depths of cut (0.020" deep or less). You can see two brass tools with flat tops that were the beginnings of my general purpose shape and a knife tool before I knew such things existed.
I was really, really bad back then and I didn't understand a thing about tool geometry. What followed was over 5 long years of experimental tool grinding, reading and cutting trials. I made changes to each tool angle one at a time, measured the amperage changes to see if the changes I made in the grind reduced the power draw and logged everything on a floppy disc (subsequently lost when I moved to my current home). I know I ground nearly 300 experimental tools and somewhere in the process, I learned to grind a tool. I think I also began to understand tool geometry but I'm still working on that.
I am humbling myself here to show you that nobody enters this hobby with grinding skills. They develop over time and with a lot of practice. I can grind a really good tool in less than 5 minutes now but in the beginning, no, it took a lot of time and effort.
Our little experiment here with the models will hopefully cut the learning curve down a bit. I'll share how the tools are ground and anything else I can think of to help you new guys learn to grind tools. It's worth the effort if it helps just one of you. I think Bonehead would agree that you cannot possibly suck at it worse than I did.
I looked all over my shop and couldn't find my early lathe tools. I wanted to show them to you guys so you know that we all start at the same place and that there is a good chance that I hold the title for THE worst lathe tools ever ground. Anyway, I finally remembered (Oh yeah? Wait until you pass 65 years of age) that I might have given them to a friend who was going to grind over them and use them on his little Sherline lathe. This must have been over 20 years ago. It was a long shot but I called and asked if he still had any of them and he said he did. I arranged to pick them up tonight. He wasn't home (went out for dinner) but he did leave me this note:
Mike, I never re-ground these tools (so don't blame me). I kept them to cheer me up whenever things got really bad in life; every time I looked at them they reminded me that things can always be worse! I have to admit that you really, really, really sucked at tool grinding back then and I cannot believe you would willingly show these tools to people on an international forum. Have you no pride? On the other hand, it may be useful to show them that one really can rise from the depths of total suckage so they shouldn't quit. Yeah, encourage them, okay? Just remember to take responsibility for these things now; DO NOT BLAME ME FOR THIS.
Your lovingly kind, supportive and gentle friend,
Bonehead (not his real name but appropriately descriptive)
This is his actual note, verbatim! I swear, even I can't make up that kind of crap ... the depths of total suckage must be his idea of waxing poetic or something. Sheesh! In his defense, Bonehead grinds nice tools (but only because he learned from me in case he reads this).
Anyway, here are my earliest tools. I was trying to duplicate some tools from Sherline and not surprisingly, they caused severe chatter at small depths of cut (0.020" deep or less). You can see two brass tools with flat tops that were the beginnings of my general purpose shape and a knife tool before I knew such things existed.
I was really, really bad back then and I didn't understand a thing about tool geometry. What followed was over 5 long years of experimental tool grinding, reading and cutting trials. I made changes to each tool angle one at a time, measured the amperage changes to see if the changes I made in the grind reduced the power draw and logged everything on a floppy disc (subsequently lost when I moved to my current home). I know I ground nearly 300 experimental tools and somewhere in the process, I learned to grind a tool. I think I also began to understand tool geometry but I'm still working on that.
I am humbling myself here to show you that nobody enters this hobby with grinding skills. They develop over time and with a lot of practice. I can grind a really good tool in less than 5 minutes now but in the beginning, no, it took a lot of time and effort.
Our little experiment here with the models will hopefully cut the learning curve down a bit. I'll share how the tools are ground and anything else I can think of to help you new guys learn to grind tools. It's worth the effort if it helps just one of you. I think Bonehead would agree that you cannot possibly suck at it worse than I did.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2016
- Messages
- 3,288
This is a really nice gesture and a neat idea.
While having a physical piece to hold and look at is helpful I think just having good photos and explanations of the how and why would still go a long way towards learning how to grind these tools and come up with new tools as well. It will also remain available long after the models have been dispersed to whereabouts unknown.
Honestly I'm lost beyond LH and RH tools at this point, so I do hope you explain the other tools strengths and weaknesses. I haven't had any trouble with the included Sherline set, but I've only been working with aluminum to this point. I have ordered 10 or 20 tool (memory can be an issue for those of us under 65 too
) blanks though to give me lots to practice with, so this is good timing.
Thank you
While having a physical piece to hold and look at is helpful I think just having good photos and explanations of the how and why would still go a long way towards learning how to grind these tools and come up with new tools as well. It will also remain available long after the models have been dispersed to whereabouts unknown.
Honestly I'm lost beyond LH and RH tools at this point, so I do hope you explain the other tools strengths and weaknesses. I haven't had any trouble with the included Sherline set, but I've only been working with aluminum to this point. I have ordered 10 or 20 tool (memory can be an issue for those of us under 65 too
) blanks though to give me lots to practice with, so this is good timing.Thank you
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2016
- Messages
- 7,163
I think this is a great opportunity, and very grateful to Mike for doing it. My plan is to get the key way material, and hopefully be able to make a very close copy of the examples to keep on hand. When I start having any issues from touching up, or a slight change in shape, I can see where I went wrong. And when I get old enough, maybe I'll get good at it.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,422
This is a really nice gesture and a neat idea.
While having a physical piece to hold and look at is helpful I think just having good photos and explanations of the how and why would still go a long way towards learning how to grind these tools and come up with new tools as well. It will also remain available long after the models have been dispersed to whereabouts unknown.
Honestly I'm lost beyond LH and RH tools at this point, so I do hope you explain the other tools strengths and weaknesses. I haven't had any trouble with the included Sherline set, but I've only been working with aluminum to this point. I have ordered 10 or 20 tool (memory can be an issue for those of us under 65 too
Thank you
Thanks for the kind words and I'll be glad if the models and discussion here help you.
You are right, Aaron. The "what, why and how" part of our discussions is what really matters. As we go along, if you are not clear on something then please ask. It is really easy for me to blow right past something basic without realizing it and unless you tell me that I did it, I won't know. My intent here is to clarify and I'm counting on you and the other guys to help me do that.
As for being lost beyond RH and LH, I'm attaching some info that can actually be found elsewhere but I'll put it here for you so you can read it at your leisure. It will give you a basic understanding and we can fill in the blanks as we go along.
Stick with us. We are going to wake that little Sherline lathe up!
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,422
I think this is a great opportunity, and very grateful to Mike for doing it. My plan is to get the key way material, and hopefully be able to make a very close copy of the examples to keep on hand. When I start having any issues from touching up, or a slight change in shape, I can see where I went wrong. And when I get old enough, maybe I'll get good at it.
I'm sure the other guys on the forum will agree with me that it ain't the age, it's the mileage!
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 109
Hey Mike,
I'm in Canada and would love to take part in this, is that possible considering my location? I would happily reimburse the shipper some of the shipping costs, considering it would likely be more due to the border crossing. If not, I completely understand.
Many thanks,
Barry
I'm in Canada and would love to take part in this, is that possible considering my location? I would happily reimburse the shipper some of the shipping costs, considering it would likely be more due to the border crossing. If not, I completely understand.
Many thanks,
Barry
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,199
Good morning Barry
I'm going to be at the end of the list so if you don't mind the wait I'll send a set up to you and you can return them to me when you are done with them. That will be no problem.
Send me a PM and I'll get them to you in time.
Jeff
I'm going to be at the end of the list so if you don't mind the wait I'll send a set up to you and you can return them to me when you are done with them. That will be no problem.
Send me a PM and I'll get them to you in time.
Jeff