Looking for my perfect size hobby mill....

[Aaron_W]

Ya know Aaron,I use to consider us friends, Cohorts, Pals even... But now that I see you've been hiding that beautiful horizontal mill, I think its time we revisit our friendship contract. And by that I mean palletize that horizontal mill and send it to me and we can let bygones be bygones, So what do you say Deal...?

You have the best of both worlds right there Sir, Very Nice.

Lol guess I'm asking too much of a single milling machine to be fully multi purpose.

Really there is a huge amount of overlap between horizontal and vertical mills. It is not so much that one can't do something, each is better for doing certain operations. A large vertical mill (Bridgeport etc) does all that most home shops need. When you are dealing with smaller machines though the strengths of each can help overcome the size limitations.

Using my two mills as an example, they are roughly the same class of machine. The Y and Z axis flips between horizontal and vertical mills because of the relation to the spindle.

Clausing 6x24" table, 15-5/8" spindle to table (mine has a 4" spacer block, standard is only 11-5/8"), 11-5/8" travel up and down (Z), 5" travel in and out (Y), 15" side to side (X)
Diamond 5-1/8x20" table, 5-1/2" in and out (Z), 15" travel up and down (Y), 14" side to side (X)

So the two mills are very close in capacity, but since they swap the position of the spindle, they also trade the working area available. The vertical mill is very good for a task like drilling or face milling where it has almost 12" of travel, but is quite limited when working to the side of the spindle (slitting saw, side milling etc) where it only has 5" of travel (minus cutter diameter).

The horizontal is the reverse, it has 15" of travel for work "off the side" of the spindle, but it is not so great for drilling, since it has only 5-1/2" of travel and at most about 10" minus the work thickness "spindle to table". With the spindle held from both ends the horizontal mill is also a fair bit more rigid for many operations.

Combined I essentially have the equal of a mill with 15" Z, 15" Y and 15" X which is like a much bigger mill if I'm thoughtful about the needs of a task. Comparing to a Bridgeport Series 1 with 19" Z, 12" Y and 36" X you can see where somebody with a full size mill, doesn't feel limited doing "horizontal mill work" until they get to really large parts. Of course they do make big horizontal mills for those that need them.

 

[Mr Mike]

That sounds about right.

Thanks for confirming that... I was kind of hoping I was wrong and you were gunna say nah you can make a 6" gear with that setup...

A 6" rod is the max work over the cross slide on my 1236T - that's were I got the 6" gear idea from...!

Thanks Mike.

 

[Larry$]

Bridgeport Series 1 with 19" Z, 12" Y and 36" X

Add to those #s the travel of the ram on a knee mill of 13.35" (spindle to column min. 4.5", Maximum19") This is from the specs page and doesn't seem correct! 19-4.5 = 14.5 of ram travel.
Left/right head movement of 90° (spindle parallel to the table)
Fore and aft spindle movement (nod of 45° each way)
The knee mill starts looking like the "Jack of Most Trades."
As for how big of gear could be cut on a mill, there is nothing stopping you from putting the indexing head and footstock on top of risers.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Thanks for confirming that... I was kind of hoping I was wrong and you were gunna say nah you can make a 6" gear with that setup...

A 6" rod is the max work over the cross slide on my 1236T - that's were I got the 6" gear idea from...!

Thanks Mike.

Something you have to think about, you can mount the dividing head in the y axis with a bit of gymnastics; but there are good reasons not to. Your gear will be limited to the cutter diameter, CL of the quill to the cut; so, if your 6" gear has larger teeth the cutter diameter will grow a bit as well.

My point is I am certain we are all thinking we are all thinking Lathe change gears which have relatively small teeth, but you might be thinking Truck gear box gears which have larger teeth..... Its all relative.

 

[Aaron_W]

Add to those #s the travel of the ram on a knee mill of 13.35" (spindle to column min. 4.5", Maximum19") This is from the specs page and doesn't seem correct! 19-4.5 = 14.5 of ram travel.
Left/right head movement of 90° (spindle parallel to the table)
Fore and aft spindle movement (nod of 45° each way)
The knee mill starts looking like the "Jack of Most Trades."
As for how big of gear could be cut on a mill, there is nothing stopping you from putting the indexing head and footstock on top of risers.

Yeah, a Bridgeport has a lot of other features with the ability to tilt and nod the head, move the ram in and out and swing the head.

I was just trying to paint the picture of where a pair of small mills (one horizontal, one vertical) can really complement each other, but with a large mill, having a horizontal mill will mostly be a niche machine unless you happen to have the space for something like this sexy beast which is probably half the square footage of my whole shop.

 

[Aaron_W]

Oh and I blame Keith Rucker for the little Diamond mill following me home. I don't have the room for a big K&T 3H, but watching him work with his gave me a bad case of the "needs me one" in my shop.

 

[Larry$]

a horizontal mill will mostly be a niche machine unless you happen to have the space for something like this sexy beast

Having that in your shop would be impressive! Not sure what you would use it for. I suspect a lot of those big old machines are being scrapped and replaced by CNC.

 

[Mr Mike]

Couple questions I need help with Please....?

The garage floor where the Mill will live is a 4" thick monolithic slab on grade floor, with 16" deep perimeter footings poured at the same time...The additional weight of these two machines is something I should consider since they are right up against or near the footing that separates the garage and living space.

My question is..?
Will the weight of a lathe which is Approximately 1100 lbs. plus the weight of a Mill that's just 6' apart on the same wall pose any issues - I've narrowed down my choice of Mill to either the Pm-727v 575 lbs. or the PM-932 1100 lbs. So that is 1700 lbs. or 2200 lbs. near the footing on the same wall..?

My second question is..?
Both Mills above share a lot of the same attributes, but the PM-932 has a 9" table that is 2" deeper than the PM-727v... Is the extra size of the 9" a pretty big deal over the 7" ?

Thanks Mike...

 

[wrmiller]

Hey Mike,

I don't know what a standard garage slab is, spec-wise, but I had a PM935 and a PM1340GT about 6' or so apart along the back wall of the garage and nothing broke.

 

[Rich Berg]

Hi, I own a PM932, I've owned it for about 5 years and worked on it since new, all kinds of problems. it has a single-phase motor that has eaten start caps, severe oil leaks and little stuff.
If I were to do it again, I would purchase a unit with at least a 3-phase motor a DRO and a X axis power feed.
I have in the past purchased Grizzly stuff and was impressed with the amount of tooling that came with them,
I like the G0695 - 8" x 30" 1-1/2 HP Variable-Speed Knee Mill. the PM 728 looks nice.
Rich