Kurt sine key. How do these work?

[akjeff]

I think they're intended for CNC shops that have fixture plates on the tables, with a hole size and spacing that allows fast/repeatable indexing of the vise in various positions?

 

[Chipper5783]

Yes, Jeff is probably right - that they would work great on a fixture plate. I can tell you that they work great as the 0 degree and 90 degree alignment keys, they are easy to pop out (to set the vise to whatever angle you want - a couple pretty standard methods available). I tried a bunch of combinations of the different hole positions and did not land on any reasonable angle (ie. 30 / 45 / 60 degree). I use these vises on the VMC so it feels like a pretty unusual situation where the vise would need to be swung to some angle (if I want an angle I’ll just punch in the start and end points).

I generally run a dial along the jaw anyway (sometimes it will be right on, sometimes off at most 0.002”). Personally I like having keys as part of securing the vise - the keys pushed against the back side slot and I try to direct the main cutting force towards the fixed jaw (with a couple purpose built 5/8” Tbolts, I’ve never had a vise shift).

I have no idea why they are called sine keys, but as keys to facilitate vise position they work great. A feature that I like is the keys are very easy to remove so the vises go nicely into their little storage location. My old Anglok, with the fixed keys, has to live on some scraps of wood when not in use (obviously not a big deal - just my OCD nature).

 

[Janderso]

I think the dimples are for trammel points to measure distance, then you can use SIN to set the angle using... your table slots and gauge blocks, I assume. Seems wonky to me, but it's Kurt, so it must be amazing, right? You can actually use a sine bar in a vise to accomplish the same thing, where the envelope allows, which makes these an unnecessary tool, and I bet that's what's really at the heart of it. No, I didn't look up the price, I know better after looking up hard jaws than to ever ask for the Kurt retail price sheet again.

Those narrow 3" sine bars are great to use with the vise.

 

[Janderso]

Yes, Jeff is probably right - that they would work great on a fixture plate. I can tell you that they work great as the 0 degree and 90 degree alignment keys, they are easy to pop out (to set the vise to whatever angle you want - a couple pretty standard methods available). I tried a bunch of combinations of the different hole positions and did not land on any reasonable angle (ie. 30 / 45 / 60 degree). I use these vises on the VMC so it feels like a pretty unusual situation where the vise would need to be swung to some angle (if I want an angle I’ll just punch in the start and end points).

I generally run a dial along the jaw anyway (sometimes it will be right on, sometimes off at most 0.002”). Personally I like having keys as part of securing the vise - the keys pushed against the back side slot and I try to direct the main cutting force towards the fixed jaw (with a couple purpose built 5/8” Tbolts, I’ve never had a vise shift).

I have no idea why they are called sine keys, but as keys to facilitate vise position they work great. A feature that I like is the keys are very easy to remove so the vises go nicely into their little storage location. My old Anglok, with the fixed keys, has to live on some scraps of wood when not in use (obviously not a big deal - just my OCD nature).

Have you got any white tail deer in Red Deer?

 

[mmcmdl]

Have you got any white tail deer in Red Deer?

Just coming back and saw quite a lot of wildlife up there !

 

[akjeff]

I think the dimples are for trammel points to measure distance, then you can use SIN to set the angle using... your table slots and gauge blocks, I assume. Seems wonky to me, but it's Kurt, so it must be amazing, right? You can actually use a sine bar in a vise to accomplish the same thing, where the envelope allows, which makes these an unnecessary tool, and I bet that's what's really at the heart of it. No, I didn't look up the price, I know better after looking up hard jaws than to ever ask for the Kurt retail price sheet again.

The "dimples" look like drilled centers to me. Since they basically are pushed into the holes in the bottom of the vise, and aren't held in place with any sort of fastener, I don't think using them for trammel points would do you much good. As for price, they're $58 per pair direct from Kurt( which is probably the most expensive way to buy them ). No way in hell I would machine, heat treat, and grind to dimension( or hard mill/turn ) for that price! Same with their jaws. Plain Jane jaws are like $50 a piece. I've machined and ground my own jaws, and I wouldn't do it for that price either!

 

[Chipper5783]

Mostly mule deer in our area. There are some WT around, but we don’t see them very often.

The keys are held in place with a friction fit o-ring. The system works great.

Jaws you say? I made up 5 sets from scrap plate (soft jaws) - ground up pretty. I’m not 100% thrilled with the Kurt jaws, the groovelok thingy is fine, but I rarely use it (handy about one job in 20, and easy to substitute). On all 3 of my DX6 vises, the jaws are about 5.98” long, and the vise body is 6.00”, so I biase the jaws to the left side against a straight edge (play in the bolt holes) and use that left side as X0. IMO, the jaws should protrude slightly on each side and be the same length (matched). The Kurt jaws can’t be flipped, they’d need to be about 0.1” taller. I made the SJs that little bit taller so that they can be flipped. To date the main use has been as step jaws, which Kurt offers at $315 ea from KBC (granted theirs are hard, mine are soft, however mine are machined in place for length/step/height and won’t damage a cutter if / when I make a mistake). Very happy with the result.

 

[rwm]

I think all vises have sine keys...as long as the the angle is 0 the sine is 0.

 

[Jeff.64]

Did you see the catalog page? I think this should clear it up.

View attachment 459067

If you cancel the hypotenuse on 1.) and 2.) you'll end up with a tangent key

 

[rwm]

So dumb! They even have a video showing them mount the vise on a grid plate using sine keys. They still mounted the vise at 0 deg!