King Kc-20vs Milling Machine

[HBilly1022]

Well, the decision was made today ............. I got the PDM-30. Hope I did not make a mistake but time will tell. A last minute check this morning before I left for town and I found some reviews of the RF-30,which appears to be a similar machine, and I found a couple of positive reviews from people that had theirs for a while. The one guy stated he had his for 6 years and uses it every day. He has been happy with it and notes the spindle bearings are getting worn and once they get bad enough he will just replace them but will keep the machine.

Wayne, after hearing you have a second larger mill, I think I made the right choice, since I am only going to have one mill.

Now I have to figure out what tools I need to get started while I wait for the mill to arrive. The one in the store was sold and there was only one other in BC (from KMS Tools anyway) and that one was on display. So I have a crated one being shipped from Edmonton. I looked at the vice that comes with it and it does not look to be a precision vice but I will make do until I get to try the machine for a while. The only other thing it comes with is a fly cutter and an R-8 device to hold the cutter. Since I have no experience with collets I'm going to have to do some more reading. From what the lady at the tool store described there are 2 approaches to using collets. One is to get a collet holder that is held in place by a threaded rod and then get different sized collets to match the end mill sizes I will use. She had a set of collets with holder there for $450, seems pricey. The other method was to get a bunch of different sized R-8 collet that have their own holders and are each held in place individually. The second system seemed less convenient but was 1/2 the price of the first set. EDIT, a little more reading and I find the lady at the tool store did not know what she was talking about or I misunderstood. The collet set she showed me must have been an ER32 set with holder, she also showed me an R-8 collet set but told me that it needed some kind of holder to keep it in the mill but I now think the collets are held in place with a drawbar that should come with the mill. The last thing she showed me was a set of endmill holders. Which system is better? end edit.

This thing is heavy and I am going to have to figure out where it's going in the shop and what sort of bench to put it on, wood or steel. I guess I could just buy the one that KMS sells but they do not have any on display so I don't even know if it has shelves in the base. I want shelves and/or drawers for the various tools that I will collect over time. I have the same issue with the lathe I got a little while ago, which is temporarily sitting on a wooden/metal portable scaffolding. Not the best, as it is very unstable. Maybe one large bench for both machines would be better?

 

[hman]

Well, the decision was made today ............. I got the PDM-30. Hope I did not make a mistake but time will tell. A last minute check this morning before I left for town and I found some reviews of the RF-30,which appears to be a similar machine, and I found a couple of positive reviews from people that had theirs for a while. The one guy stated he had his for 6 years and uses it every day. He has been happy with it and notes the spindle bearings are getting worn and once they get bad enough he will just replace them but will keep the machine.

I think you made the right choice. Lots of very good work has been done on RF-30 clones.

Now I have to figure out what tools I need to get started while I wait for the mill to arrive. <snip> The only other thing it comes with is a fly cutter and an R-8 device to hold the cutter.

WHAT???? Not even a drill chuck? Ah, well. Guess you'll have to put one of those on Santa's wish list. Plus lots and lots of other goodies ... parallels, end mills, edge finder, collets (see below), hold-down set, etc. etc. etc. Then eventually a DRO, and maybe a power feed for the X axis. The fun never stops.

PS - Just about all RF-30s come with a face mill (what you called a fly cutter), and few people ever end up using it. If yours is anything like the one I got, it's difficult to set up and can only mill the top surface of a part. Absolutely useless for the sides!

The collet set she showed me must have been an ER32 set with holder, she also showed me an R-8 collet set but told me that it needed some kind of holder to keep it in the mill but I now think the collets are held in place with a drawbar that should come with the mill. The last thing she showed me was a set of endmill holders. Which system is better?

You're right about the fact that the drawbar is used to hold the R8 collets. Also right about the lady not quite knowing what was what. R8 is pretty universal for mills. ER32 is nice, and a bit more versatile because the collets have larger grip ranges (so you could use metric end mills if you wanted to), but as you noticed, it's kinda pricey. The ER holder is held in the mill with the same drawbar, by the way.

End mill holders are OK, and several people swear by them, because if you fail to correctly tighten an R8, the cutter can slip upwards or downward, depending on cutting conditions (think of the forces generated when the spiral-shaped flutes are cutting on the side of a large block of material). That said, I've never had any trouble with an R8 slipping in either of my mills. End mill holders are also longer than collets, so the cutter extends further from the spindle. Might be a disadvantage in tight situations, or an advantage when switching between a drill chuck and a milling cutter, as it might allow you to use both without moving the head.

IMHO, you would be OK to start with a relatively inexpensive set of Chinese R8 collets, such as the ones sold by CDCO:
http://www.cdcotools.com
Enter "collet" in the search box and scroll down to the R8s. I have #25128 or #25129, forget which, and have been pleased with it.

Best wishes, and congrats on your purchase!

 

[HBilly1022]

Thanks John, your comment about making the right choice provides a little more assurance. Your right about the drill chuck being included with the package and the "Fly Cutter" being a face mill. I'm sure it will take a while before I get some of the jargon right. I don't know how much use I will get from the drill chuck since I already have a 17" drill press and based on your comment about the face cutter, it looks like that won't get much use either. So the first thing I need to do is get some end mills and holders/collets, maybe a machinist square too. Let the fun begin.

 

[WayneP]

Thanks John, your comment about making the right choice provides a little more assurance. Your right about the drill chuck being included with the package and the "Fly Cutter" being a face mill. I'm sure it will take a while before I get some of the jargon right. I don't know how much use I will get from the drill chuck since I already have a 17" drill press and based on your comment about the face cutter, it looks like that won't get much use either. So the first thing I need to do is get some end mills and holders/collets, maybe a machinist square too. Let the fun begin.

Tormach has good R8 collet holders and collet sets. Glad you made a decision and I hope the machine works well for you...I will certainly study this machine when considering future expansion of my shop

 

[Thriller]

Thanks John, your comment about making the right choice provides a little more assurance. Your right about the drill chuck being included with the package and the "Fly Cutter" being a face mill. I'm sure it will take a while before I get some of the jargon right. I don't know how much use I will get from the drill chuck since I already have a 17" drill press and based on your comment about the face cutter, it looks like that won't get much use either. So the first thing I need to do is get some end mills and holders/collets, maybe a machinist square too. Let the fun begin.

So now that it has been a few years what is your feedback on the machine? I am going through some of the same questions you had. Currently I have one of the combination lathe milling machines but am looking for a dedicated milling machine that is on the smaller side of things so it will fit my smaller shop.

 

[HBilly1022]

So now that it has been a few years what is your feedback on the machine? I am going through some of the same questions you had. Currently I have one of the combination lathe milling machines but am looking for a dedicated milling machine that is on the smaller side of things so it will fit my smaller shop.

Sorry for the delay. I haven't been on this forum for a while. In any case, I am very glad I went with the heavier machine. Even with this one I can push a little too much and have to take lighter cuts or reduce the feed speed. The issue of moving the head and having to reference again, turned out to be a minor issue. It takes very little time to do it. Oh, another thing ...... I do use the drill chuck a lot, even though I have a dedicated 17" drill press. The mill is much heavier, more stable and I can use the DRO's to get consistent drill locations. Having a table with the ability to move in the x and y directions just makes the mill/drill so much nicer to use for drilling.