Jet 13X40 Headstock alignment nightmare with Walter Meier.

[Richard King]

Your bar is sticking out way to long, shorten it up. The collrs need to be 6" apart. Not 12". No one ever machines a shaft that long with out the tail-stock. John is right on the procedures. I know you are a re-thinker, but these methods work, trust me.

I think you have had so many issues created from these so called Jet experts but it doesn't sound like any had experienced in alignment and have messed up your machine and mind.
As they say this is not John's or mine first Rodeo.

 

[jmh8743]

Richard,

The distance between the cleared area in the photo is 6.2". So you are saying cut it off at the dychem?

I can take it out of the chuck NOW, cut and reindex, then undercut, etc.

10-4. I have chucked 2", very solid chuck forces. BUT I did NOT use a "cheater bar" on chuck key. Hee Hee as they said. The fat lady is tuning up.

Have a good Sunday. Maybe we can help someone else.

Mike

 

[jmh8743]

John,

I am an engineer-surveyor. The level I used has a radius measured in seconds>>>than a machinists level 'tho I have one which I used initially.

I think now, with the help (read confidence) I'm getting now, after 2 years I'm getting close AND my lathe measured about same as yours. Impossible to bore.

All I can say is gracias for your comment. What I did not know is which comes first "the chicken or the egg".

Mike

 

[Richard King]

Must be an optical illusion....looks like it's sticking out a foot. Yeah I think I am going to take the day off.

Have a good day.

Rich

 

[jmh8743]

Richard & John,

Per the work specifications:







Headstock:





John, I do have some gears to move to get to the darn adjustment bar. Right now, other fish to fry. I'm going to make a photo of the left side of the headstock. I found the bar you were talking about. And per "All this is presuming your lathe spindle isn't angled up or down with respect to the bed". This I do not know. I presume that is next.
I do know that vertical HS to way vs TS to ways is w/i 0.002" using centers and a 24" ground test bar.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ccessories/lathe-centering-bar-prod20884.aspx



One more thing Rick, the distance between c to c of collar:




Mike...Thank you both.

"If it is DON'T Start aligning your head. Let me know and I'll tell you what to do next. I am getting writers cramp..."

Commentary: Before I bought my lathe, I read many commentaries about manf lack of concern. From my meager point of view, I have applied ALL the leverage I can muster to the retailer. It seems prudent that some self governing and autonomous organization could gather enough support to garner "if you sell here" specifications. From the money I spent over the 2 yrs fighting this issue, I could have HIRED knowledgeable professionals (both of you and travel) to assemble this lathe. The retailer would have agreed on 50%+50%. However, I did not KNOW (ignorance on my behalf) even after thorough investigation. The wholesaler did not care...they have gotten away with this business practice so long. In Alabama, it is the responsibility of the retailer. They have the fiducial responsibility.

I uploaded the photos that did not show herein to :

http://winchester52.blogspot.com/2012/12/continuation-of-jet-ghl-13x40.html

 

[Richard King]

It looks like it's a . 0032 bigger near the chuck. As I said I would turn that big end down so it reads 1.065" too. before adjusting the head. I hope you understand what I am trying to explain. Your making a test bar the same as the ground one you have.

You could put your ground bar back in, but you will have to indicate it in so the TIR is less the a .0001". With your turned bar you are following the true axis of your spindle bearings or the same way you will have when you are using the machine. This method will work for you and it will help the other guys who do not own a ground test bar.

With this method you need not dismantle the gears each time take a cut and hoping it will be perfect. I find it takes a couple of tries no matter which method you use. From the drawing in the Winchester link shows you how to adjust the head. I can't be positive, but I am assuming the head pivot id under the right side of center and not directly in the center.

After you turn the bar down, loosen the HS bolts holding it down to the bed keeping them finger tight, then mount an indicator in the tool post and zero it at the chuck end and then crank the saddle to the right until you get to the other collar loosen the HS and loosen the front swivel adjusting bolt like a 1/8 of turn and tighten the back swivel adjusting bolt. This will swivel the head. This is a trial and error method as I have no clue here knowing the ratio to the swivel adjuster screws to the amount of movement. I would venture a guess you will need to move it about .0025". Then crank the saddle back and forth and keep adjusting it so the bar is straight.

Remember I said the TS end should be .0001 + in 6" to compensate for push away when cutting. After you have it good tighten the head and recheck it again by cranking it. If your happy, then re-assemble the gears and take a clean up cut. . After your done if you want to see which way the head is pointing and do the final clean up cuts that are good. Mount the mag base on the compound put your indicator on the top of the bar and move the cross-slide back and forth and get top dead center, zero the indicator, crank it down and do a top dead center check on the other collar. The head is suppose to be pointing up on TS end .0002" in 12".

 

[jmh8743]

Mr. King,
I intend to begin the procedure you described tomorrow. Also, FYI, there is another thread "...buying a new lathe" which describes procedures I should have been aware of, but allas due to my inexperience failed to comply. Tony W advised at the beginning "get over it...proceed" which I did not think I could do. I blamed that deficiency on an illness I had in '06 which I am just now overcoming, albeit with some physical disability. You are correct about the questionable advise of others. Your help has given me confidence beyond the ill gotten BS I knew could not work.
Finally, I will post photos as I proceed. That way, you can, if desired, edit and use this data at your leisure with my blessing.

J M (Mike) Hillman PE & LS
Remap , AL

HERE IS WHERE I'LL START:

 

[Richard King]

Your Welcome..

In 5 years you won't even recall this happened......I had some medical issues that started about 10 years ago...I had a good doctor who I trusted, misdiagnose my problem and had me on 2 depression pills as he said I was depressed. I would not get out of bed, was supper unhappy and my teaching and rebuilding career came to a halt. One day at the Dr. office he said..."I am stumped, maybe you should see a specialist". I went to the University of MN and saw a professor / MD and within 2 days had me correctly diagnosed and on the mend. I was never depressed, I have a condition called "Factor 5" that makes my blood real thick and when it is thick it can't circulate in my brain right and makes me look depressed. Now I take a blood thinner and I am fine.

So hang in there Mike, thing will get better. You're like anyone else, you spend hard earned money for something and you want it perfect. Plus when the factory sends out a repairman you assume they know what they are doing. I am happy I could have helped. Have a Happy day off New Year !! Rich

PS: We all have our skills....I wish I knew how to put arrows in pictures like you do.....lol My Dad use to say to me "when you stop learning something new every day of your life, you will be dead".

 

[jmh8743]

Mr King,
Made a collosal misunderstanding of your instructions:
1) I removed the bar, and turned it to 1.065
2) Then I indicated the "buttstock" of the work difficult to explain:



Look close and you can see the chuck marks where it was held. Arrow is thin; turned the end that was in the chuck. Reversed and WOW. The run out was large to say the least.
3) Recut both collars as seen above.
4) THEN YOU CAN SEE MY CONUMDRUM




5)




It is now chucked W/O crush tabs. There are some other issues here. Is it ground bar time?
Multiple measurements made only a few 10ths diff.
Maybe the tabs are the culprit... Headed to hse for lunch. It appears that "moving" the work was not intended but good I did it.

Mike

Cold out there (in shop). Wood heater needs stuffing. + Soup is hot tho
I think after lunch I'll reindicate the "buttstock" with that chuck (high $$) and see If I can repeat the measurements. It appears the chuck is not engaging the work uniformly.

 

[jmh8743]

stage 2 measurements prior to adjusting HS:

Original bar rechucked, total ind runout 0.0002":

1. Set 0.0001" Gage at HS, set at 0.0100" indicated



2. moved DG to outboard collar:



IG now reading 0.0025". Does this not mean the trued collar has moved 0.0075 toward operator?