B
Bill Gruby
Forum Guest
Register Today
This forum will never become a PM.
"Billy G":thinking:
"Billy G":thinking:
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared
- Thread starter jumps4
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2011
- Messages
- 8,032
Absolutely right, Bill.
I don't think that this is a negative thread at all. It is just some guys expressing their opinions (entitled) about the subject. No one at all is saying that you should or shouldn't have anything you want in your shop. I believe most of the responses from those who don't particularly want a CNC are just telling why they feel that way, not being critical of those that want one. As the subject line says " I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared", it's just a few of us saying, no, those are not the reasons and we don't want them for this or that reason. No more, no less. From what I gather from these threads is, not surprisingly, many of the individuals just getting into the hobby in this day and age, when computers and automation are part of everyday life, want to dive right into CNC. Nothing wrong with that. When I was just learning, perhaps if all that is available now was available then, I might have felt the same way. But for those who want to get into the home CNC hobby, please try to understand that to become a good manual machinist takes years, and some of us are a bit proud of having that much experience under our belts. That's something you might never really understand or appreciate if you skip the manual mode completely. But we aren't passing judgment on you, nor looking down our collective noses at you as though we are superior just because of our manual skills. You guys will end up with a different skill set, that's all. And believe it or not, most of us respect the CNC operator because of what he does, and the machines for what they do. It's just different, that's all. No one is stomping on anyone's toes.
I don't think that this is a negative thread at all. It is just some guys expressing their opinions (entitled) about the subject. No one at all is saying that you should or shouldn't have anything you want in your shop. I believe most of the responses from those who don't particularly want a CNC are just telling why they feel that way, not being critical of those that want one. As the subject line says " I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared", it's just a few of us saying, no, those are not the reasons and we don't want them for this or that reason. No more, no less. From what I gather from these threads is, not surprisingly, many of the individuals just getting into the hobby in this day and age, when computers and automation are part of everyday life, want to dive right into CNC. Nothing wrong with that. When I was just learning, perhaps if all that is available now was available then, I might have felt the same way. But for those who want to get into the home CNC hobby, please try to understand that to become a good manual machinist takes years, and some of us are a bit proud of having that much experience under our belts. That's something you might never really understand or appreciate if you skip the manual mode completely. But we aren't passing judgment on you, nor looking down our collective noses at you as though we are superior just because of our manual skills. You guys will end up with a different skill set, that's all. And believe it or not, most of us respect the CNC operator because of what he does, and the machines for what they do. It's just different, that's all. No one is stomping on anyone's toes.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 2,401
nice shop and machines pete
I'm going to copy your tooling cart its really nice
i'd be interested in any details you might wish to share about your touch probe i have been wanting to make one for a while
it would be off topic in this thread so pm if your interested in sharing or start a thread
steve
I'm going to copy your tooling cart its really nice
i'd be interested in any details you might wish to share about your touch probe i have been wanting to make one for a while
it would be off topic in this thread so pm if your interested in sharing or start a thread
steve
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
- Messages
- 5,596
Hey Pete,
In that second picture down below, what kind of mill is that. -Mind telling me the brand/model and possibly a link to the distributor etc?
Thanks
Ray
PS: I didn't mean for my response to be rude. -I have all the respect in the world for these CNC setups and the people who know how to make e'm run. -But honestly, when I looked into this a couple years ago, the equipment itself looked like a project in-and-of itself. And the software looked like a hodge-podge of different packages that weren't well integrated. -No sir, not for me. I want something that works out of the box.
And some other guy in a different thread has got me thinking about this now.
In that second picture down below, what kind of mill is that. -Mind telling me the brand/model and possibly a link to the distributor etc?
Thanks
Ray
PS: I didn't mean for my response to be rude. -I have all the respect in the world for these CNC setups and the people who know how to make e'm run. -But honestly, when I looked into this a couple years ago, the equipment itself looked like a project in-and-of itself. And the software looked like a hodge-podge of different packages that weren't well integrated. -No sir, not for me. I want something that works out of the box.
And some other guy in a different thread has got me thinking about this now.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 21
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 21
No worries here , Ray
The mill is a Mikini 1610L. I bought the mill used. It's a solid piece mechanically, but, the electronics are suspect, as has been posted at the cncforum.. I'm currently collecting parts to revamp all the electronics. The mill uses Mach3 software to control it. As for something that runs out of the box, there are a few "hobby mills" out there that will run "out of the box" . Tormach, Novakon, Syil, Industrial hobbies, to name a few. They all can run on Mach3 software.
I for one would LOVE to have a CNC mill in my garage. I've ran machines all my life practically. I started out as a Tool Designer and hated it. I finally got a job working in a Model Shop building aircraft lighting. When I started in the Model Shop, my Mentor asked me if I ever worked with sheetmetal, which I didn't. He kept me on sheetmetal projects for almost two years. I thought he disliked me until the light bulb clicked on. He was training me to do what the other older Modelmakers couldn't do. It was nothing to figure out a blank, cut the blank on a standard mill, then form it up on the brake press. The Model Shop broke up and I was put into Tool Design again and the others went to the Toolroom. I did the designing for all of the Toolroom guys, but I hated sitting behind the desk. There is nothing worse than a September day, sitting beside a window, sun shining, breeze blowing, and listening to kids across the street playing outside at recess. I couldn't concentrate on anything it seemed. A job opened up in the Toolroom and I bid on it and got it, so I was back to doing what I loved. After a while they split up the Toolroom into two different Toolrooms and I was put out at the other plant (we had 2 plants in town) running a CNC mill. Good God.....it was intimidating. But I worked at it to try and figure things out. My boss helped me with it as he used to be a programmer. It didn't take me long to figure out that a lot of things he had his hands in and on were going out the door wrong. Fast forward a couple of years, I really didn't care for my boss. Not for him being a dick, but for how he let things slide, fudge a program to get it to run, etc. So I traded positions with one of the guys in the other Toolroom at the other plant. They had (2) Prototrak CNC mills, two axis. With the ProtoTrak, you program more in conversation mode than in G-Code. I loved it. Where the Toolroom was, we were in a basement of the shop with limited ceiling height. We were going to get a 3 axis CNC, but only found one that would fit in the department. It was a ProtoTrak QuikCell. If I remember correctly, it was right at 7' in height, and the table travel was 14" x 14". Not a lot of travel, but if you designed your part right and used some tooling holes, there wasn't much I couldn't make. I ended up having to retire on Disability, so I don't have a CNC.
For the ones that say they don't need or don't want a CNC, the only two things stopping you are either intimidation or money, or both. A CNC is not only a timesaver, but it also opens up new doors as to what you can make. Like I mentioned above, where I found out my boss was sending stuff out the door wrong or he was fudging things to get the job done, the CNC let me find that out. The programming computer we had, used SmartCam for the designing and programming. It would work on the two axis machines but not the three axis. I ended up being the only one that would run the three axis because everyone else was too intimidated by it. They would draw something in two axis and put it on the two axis mill and manually put in stop points so they could change Z height. For production, it wasted a lot of time. But even having a 2 axis CNC at home, lets you do so much more than you could ever do on a standard mill, and a three axis just multiplies what you can do by a hundred. I remember the days on the manual mills and before the digital readouts. Count your revolutions, go past where you need to get rid of the backlash, drop your quill down and cut. It get's kind of rough when some of the machines we had might have anywhere between .030-.050 backlash, but you're making a part that has a +/-.005 tolerance.
Having a CNC at home really is no different than when you got your first computer at home, or your first mill or lathe at home. I can bet almost everyone procrastinated about buying that first computer because you said "What would we use it for"? The same way with a mill or lathe and either trying to convince yourself, or your wife. Almost everyone that buys a mill or lathe, once they get it home, puts a piece of stock in it to see what you can do with it, then it sets for a while. Then later on down the road, you wonder how you ever got along without it. A CNC isn't any different. It just throws that first computer and that first mill in the blender to create the CNC.
I hoping that someday, I can find one that I can afford to buy and bring home, or that with some help, I can find someone to help me out converting my mill to CNC. As it stands now, I'm missing out on some projects.
For the ones that say they don't need or don't want a CNC, the only two things stopping you are either intimidation or money, or both. A CNC is not only a timesaver, but it also opens up new doors as to what you can make. Like I mentioned above, where I found out my boss was sending stuff out the door wrong or he was fudging things to get the job done, the CNC let me find that out. The programming computer we had, used SmartCam for the designing and programming. It would work on the two axis machines but not the three axis. I ended up being the only one that would run the three axis because everyone else was too intimidated by it. They would draw something in two axis and put it on the two axis mill and manually put in stop points so they could change Z height. For production, it wasted a lot of time. But even having a 2 axis CNC at home, lets you do so much more than you could ever do on a standard mill, and a three axis just multiplies what you can do by a hundred. I remember the days on the manual mills and before the digital readouts. Count your revolutions, go past where you need to get rid of the backlash, drop your quill down and cut. It get's kind of rough when some of the machines we had might have anywhere between .030-.050 backlash, but you're making a part that has a +/-.005 tolerance.
Having a CNC at home really is no different than when you got your first computer at home, or your first mill or lathe at home. I can bet almost everyone procrastinated about buying that first computer because you said "What would we use it for"? The same way with a mill or lathe and either trying to convince yourself, or your wife. Almost everyone that buys a mill or lathe, once they get it home, puts a piece of stock in it to see what you can do with it, then it sets for a while. Then later on down the road, you wonder how you ever got along without it. A CNC isn't any different. It just throws that first computer and that first mill in the blender to create the CNC.
I hoping that someday, I can find one that I can afford to buy and bring home, or that with some help, I can find someone to help me out converting my mill to CNC. As it stands now, I'm missing out on some projects.
B
Bill Gruby
Forum Guest
Register Today
"FOR THOSE WHO SAY THEY DON'T NEED OR WANT CNC, THE ONLY TWO THINGS STOPPING YOU ARE EITHER INTIMIDATION OR MONEY OR BOTH"
Now we have someone telling us what we need and why we don't have it. My friend you are 110% wrong in my case. I have run CNC machines for a short time just to see what it felt like. So I guess that rules out intimidation. On to no money, I am retired and make close to 6 figures a year. Guess that one takes care of no money huh.
I don't want or need CNC in my shop for one reason. I like doing it the old way. Tony mentioned PRIDE, guess this is what he meant. Case closed.
"Billy G" :lmao:
Now we have someone telling us what we need and why we don't have it. My friend you are 110% wrong in my case. I have run CNC machines for a short time just to see what it felt like. So I guess that rules out intimidation. On to no money, I am retired and make close to 6 figures a year. Guess that one takes care of no money huh.
I don't want or need CNC in my shop for one reason. I like doing it the old way. Tony mentioned PRIDE, guess this is what he meant. Case closed.
"Billy G" :lmao:
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 924
while personally I do like to toy with the idea of setting up CNC, I do agree with Billy here. Depending on the type of machining people do and the reason they do it for, not all really need/want/should be having CNC in some cases it would defeat the purpose of machining in the first place.
Cheers
Oh, what the heck, I might as well throw my 2c in on the subject.
I think that most people who are new to machining, or who have ideas that they want to realize, want a CNC machine because the idea is very seductive. Specifically, many people think that a CNC machine is some sort of mechanical Santa Clause, where you click some buttons and your new hydrospanner pops out the other end; the reality is that it is not that simple. There is also the idea that certain things just can't be done except for under computer control; I know that I have seen some things done by a manual machinist that I couldn't have figured out how to do myself if I had not seen the step by step.
I started out with manual machines (small import mill and lathe). I have upgraded to a knee mill that I have converted to CNC (or am currently converting, work in progress), and a larger manual lathe that will stay manual.
I am of the opinion that the old guys knew what they were doing. Many amazing things were done before the invention of NC tools. I recall a professor of mine lamenting the fact that he helped put a spacecraft on the moon using only slide rules.
So, I say, learn both. If this is a hobby for you, do what you enjoy. I enjoy a bit of both.
I think that most people who are new to machining, or who have ideas that they want to realize, want a CNC machine because the idea is very seductive. Specifically, many people think that a CNC machine is some sort of mechanical Santa Clause, where you click some buttons and your new hydrospanner pops out the other end; the reality is that it is not that simple. There is also the idea that certain things just can't be done except for under computer control; I know that I have seen some things done by a manual machinist that I couldn't have figured out how to do myself if I had not seen the step by step.
I started out with manual machines (small import mill and lathe). I have upgraded to a knee mill that I have converted to CNC (or am currently converting, work in progress), and a larger manual lathe that will stay manual.
I am of the opinion that the old guys knew what they were doing. Many amazing things were done before the invention of NC tools. I recall a professor of mine lamenting the fact that he helped put a spacecraft on the moon using only slide rules.
So, I say, learn both. If this is a hobby for you, do what you enjoy. I enjoy a bit of both.