I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared

[scleaf]

Hi Folks,

I am new around here but I have wanted a milling machine my whole life. I finally broke down and bought one with Acu-Rite Millpwr 3 III cnc control. It did cost more money but since I am computer literate it does not come with a challenge. So far I have been able to make a few parts (Electronic Edge Finder), gears, tool holders. Though the machine only does what I tell it to do, I do not think it could replace me, but it could reduce the repetitive task I have to do. My new focus id to possibly make a 4th axis rotary index for the machine, however I am still in the learning phase and want to go about it slowly.

The Pros of CNC (my opinion)
-Recreating parts in numbers.
-Accuratecy
-Repeatability
-3d milling

The Cons
-Cost
-Learning Curve
-Cost of repairs

I really do not know too much, but it is all fun and allowing me to be creative.

Cheers
Vince

 

[Ray C]

For the past 32 years, I've earned a living working in areas that rely on every kind of computer or micro-controller known to mankind. The LAST thing I want to do when I come home to relax in the shop, is to screw-around with more dysfunctional software and half-baked hardware solutions. I've had my snoot-full of tinkering with computers. Been there, done that... -yawn. So if I were to get into CAM, I wouldn't want a "do-it-yourself" project type setup but rather, a fully functional system that's already got the kinks worked out. -And in all honesty, I probably couldn't afford such a package for the small scale of work I do.

That said, 30% of the work I do to feed my addiction are repairs/restorations, another 30% is one-of-a-kind fabrication and the rest is my own stuff for pure pleasure -and I try to push the envelope of the personal projects I tackle. For example, I designed from the ground-up a two stage turbine engine... Did all the thermodynamics, designed the blades, oil and fuel pumps, and designed a combined radial and thin-film thrust bearing mechanism that spins at 120,000 RPM with 300lb thrust. I'm about to prototype the bearing system. This whole project is now 2 years on paper and this upcoming year in the shop.

Virtually everything I do is "one-of-a-kind" and virtually everything I do can be done perfectly well with manual machines. And since I'm a technology adviser (of sorts) by day, I like to come home and work with my hands.

 

[JPigg55]

David;

We know we are being phased out so to speak. Just remember who to call when it breaks down. You won't find him in house and you will pay dearly for his time. Not to mention the time for the company he works for. Sometimes progress is misnamed.
Sorry guys, this post got my butt out. No machine will ever replace man. Man made them. There will always be one man
there.
I will not reply anymore to this post as it it biased and the side of the skilled machinist is slighted.

"Bill Gruby" (EXPERIENCED MACHINIST)

As far as my posts were concerned, no slighting was intended.
I look at this thread on the site "Hobby Machinist the Friendly Machinst Forum" under "CNC in the Home Shop".
My impressions of this site and the people on it so far is one of mutual respect and friendship through the posts I've read. Much more so than many of the other site I visit and member to. I'm fairly new here and have posted more here and gotten more answers/opinions here than all the others combined.
Some posts cause a little friction with or between members, but I've personally only read, what I consider, one snide comment towards a newer member looking for advice & information. Something all too often seen on other sites.
My father was a machinist with Cat for 30 years working with manual machines never touching a computer. I have the utmost respect for you guys that can create art out of bare materials.
I, however, started researching CNC for personal reasons. Looking for a possible solution to the limited time I can devote for the projects I'm looking to persue. The faster repeatability for making runs of various parts could be cut to days vs weeks or months. For those with the time and talent to do this type of work all manually, my hat's off to you and I wish I were in your shoes so to speak.
My 2 cents.

 

[David Kirtley]

For me, the CNC stuff is the project and not the tool set. I work at a university in the college of Engineering and Computer Science with a well outfitted machine shop with manual and CNC equipment everywhere. The only thing they have there that I would give up garage space for is their awesome horizontal bandsaw. A definite thing of beauty. <sigh>

I have three ongoing CNC projects: a gantry router, a lathe, and a 3D printer. I don't need them. My CNC interest is just a platform for some ideas I want to play with and to get some practice manual machining by making parts rather than just producing swarf. I have been experimenting with linear motion and drive systems. Playing with programming control systems and chip programming (Arduino and bare Atmel processors) and simple electronics like my first H-Bridge motor controller that I built a few months ago. They have been a lot of fun to play with as projects. Would I convert my mill and lathe to CNC control? I could see some fun things I could do with them but it is not an interest right now. If I really wanted a CNC machine, I could have bought one that would have been cheaper than my rotary table set-up.

 

[PurpLev]

I will eventually migrate to CNC but I don't regret the investment of time with the manual stuff. The fact is that there just isn't much that you can do with a CNC setup that you can't do manually. The things that really move me towards CNC are:

It adds a lot of capabilities that you would have to move to much more expensive equipment and tooling to match.
It takes over some of the tedium of the manual tasks.
Allows complex machining with fewer set ups.

I must say I enjoy manual machining, but at the same time, some processes can be tedious (especially with the smaller machines that can take lighter cuts, thus more steps) I keep entertaining the idea of CNCing the mill for the reasons David listed above. Considering the cost of a rotary table (manual) and indexing capabilities and other tooling required for repeatability, CNC cost isn't that great.

at the moment I myself am stuck at the "what would I need, and where do I go from here" stage... enjoying full manual mode for now.

 

[Cuzzun_itt]

Rotary encoders could be built into hand wheels and you would be able to adjust the movement per revolution so you could easily change from rapid movement to fine adjustment.
Tactile feedback, lights, or sound effects for units of movements such as thousanths could be built in quite easily so you don't have to take your eyes off the work.
Display could change to a simple DRO mode with things like color changes to highlight an axis that is moving.
.

If I didn't know better I would say you were describing a ProtoTrac?

Neat machine but awful pricey for a for a home shop.

Itt

 

[Tony Wells]

CNC machines, like robotics, have their place in the machine shop. I spent many years around them, while consciously keeping my distance. I came from a strictly manual background. There were no NC/CNC machines in school. We had hand-me-down manual equipment from a local JC, who acquired them as Navy surplus after Korea. My first production job was at McEvoy here in Tyler, and although there were NC/CNC machines there, the manual department was sizable. That's where I started. At the time, I knew little of the "automatics" in the other departments. After a while there, I moved to a repair/job shop where it was little more than a barn with machines in it. Learned a lot from both places. Later, after another shop or two, went to a manual shop that was enlarged to include a couple of turning machines. First buy was a pair of Mori-Seiki TL-5 turning centers. Looked very much like this:


Then we bought a pair of Webb CNC mills. They're just beefy knee mills with a nice conversational control. I forget the brand. It's been a while. We continued to grow and bought additional equipment to include Comet VMC's and larger Mazak lathes such as the M-4 and M-4, and another Mori, for a good while, the biggest CNC in the house, an LL-7:



As time went by, and we weathered the ups and downs of the oilfield, we eventually abandoned that facility, after adding footage about 5 times, and built a new place. More machines, larger machines. I've been around them enough to know I don't need them. Right now, my machine work is at a slow, easy pace that I can enjoy. Of course, as I've said before, I'm not a hobbyist. I can see the intrigue that exists in CNC machines (especially for people newly acquainted with machine work), but unless something changes drastically for me, I have no interest in having them in my shop. I'm not afraid of them one bit. I know what they are capable of, and what they are not. I don't need them, not one bit. Besides, if I were to go out and buy one, I'd feel like I needed to keep it busy. That's what they are for. The more they sit, the more money is just being wasted, because they can make money......that's what they are really for.

 

[David Kirtley]

If I didn't know better I would say you were describing a ProtoTrac?

Neat machine but awful pricey for a for a home shop.

Itt

I wasn't picking on anything in particular. I had not seen ProtoTrack. Looks like a nice product. I was mostly coming from the direction that you can get USB rotary encoders for $40. They use them all the time for volume controls on car computers. Less fancy encoders are like $4 at Sparkfun with LED lights and stuff already on them. The rest is just organization of the software.

The ability to focus in and concentrate on manual machines is one of their primary advantages. The hobby range of control software (Mach3 and the like) slap everything on the screen at once. You have to pick through a huge amount of information on screen to read what is going on. Not really a good idea when you are also trying to keep an eye on a machine and workpiece (and potentially people wandering around the shop). You need to be able to see part of the information at a glance. The rest you watch when you are planning things out. The software has needless stuff on the screen at all times. By all means, have a gorgeous simulator that you can preview the tool path before you run a part. You don't need a 3D model showing when you should be watching the cutter. You can't read and interpret the g-code stream as it's streaming at full speed anyway. Get it out of the way. All those CPU cycles could be devoted to timing the electronics instead of updating info on the screen you can't keep up with anyway.

 

[scleaf]

Hi All,

It seems that those of you that are machinist do not care for CNC in the home. I can see after a long day in the shop you would not want to come home and press buttons. You all have some skill that I do not have yet, I am an aircraft mechanic by trade and moved to Engineering. I am in the learning process for now. I can say I have broken a few cutters, but no crashes while learning my controls.

Basically my machine is a Bridgeport with 3-axis control. It is a 2008 machine so it does not have the bells and whistles of USB, however It does have a RS232 port and a CF Flash drive. I recently made vise keys for my KURT vise. I could have made these square like the ones on ebay, but I wanted to make them a bit different so I did the math and programed the control. You all could have made the parts in the time I took to set up. I found it to be fun because it cuts the part and sets up for the next part to be cut. So if I cut one part and then reset my X axis I am ready to cut the second part. I could program a lot of them but this is a prototype machine and for small quantities.

Please forgive me if I am off track a bit, but I am excited to be doing all this and hope to get to know a few of you while heading down this path. Not feeling scared now that I am learning the controls.

experience < 2 months, so a few nights and weekends

best regards,
-Vince

So here is the simple control and part comparison: Find this not too complex but it is a simple part. Will post my electronic edge finder in the correct forum when completed.

 

[slowtwitch]

Hello folks, First of all, I don't understand the negative responses to having a CNC machine in the home shop under the "CNC IN THE HOME SHOP" thread???????????????? I sure hope this isn't turning into another PM site. First of all let me say, I'm no machinist. I'm just a lowly maintenance man, that fixes things in an office building. I don't have any fancy degree's. All my training has been "OJT". I do have an addiction....... old VW's.

About 2 years ago, I designed a new linkage system for VW's. I tried making the parts on an old Emco column mill. But, being a rank beginner at machining, I couldn't work the dials to make some radius's in the part. So i decided to have them machined by the "Pros".. Bad mistake.. I went to 5 different shops....let's just say, it was not productive.

I then decided to make the parts myself. I bought two CNC machines for my garage...a mill and a lathe. Prior to these machines, I never saw a CNC mill or lathe. In a 8 month period, I refurbished the lathe, learned CAD/Cam and G-code and I've been selling my parts for close to a year and a half. Am I an expert at CNC'ing , not likely. But, I don't think it's as difficult as some people want you to think it is. I taught myself from Google'ing, Youtube'ing and visiting the many forums on the web and if this old geezer can learn something...anyone can

As for manual machines, I do have an old Enco column drill/mill and an old Logan lathe in the basement. I rarely use the mill and the lathe is used for polishing my pulleys. I've become so used to using the CNC mill and lathe, that it doesn't take the hours of writing code or using a cad/cam, as some have mentioned. In fact, just as some enjoy turning the knobs, I enjoy drawing the part in cad, then turning it over to a cam program to see how I want the tool path to proceed. I also enjoy looking over the Gcode to make any subtle changes to improve my machining.

Is there anything wrong with having a CNC in you home shop????? Hell no!!!!! Is there anything wrong with having a manual machine in your home shop???? Hell No!!!! It all depends on what you like

Lastly, since this is the "CNC IN THE HOME SHOP" forum, here are my machines....

My Emco lathe...



My Mill...



My tool rack......



Enjoy making chips !!!!!!