Going To Buy A Lathe... Thoughts, Input Solicited By Inexperienced Dufus

Here are two electrical schematics/drawings I've found, and annotated with translations from my frau. Essentially, it looks like I'm going to have to cook up most of the contents of the box shown above, and as near as I can tell looking at the machine, they get arranged mostly like these two drawings. This may not come out right. If not, I'll figure out some other way to do it.

p1_translated.jpg
p2_translated.jpg

Okay:
drawing1left.jpgdrawing1middle.jpg drawing1right.jpg
drawing2key.jpg
drawing2.jpg
 
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4gsr said:
That's fairly new modern wiring per the DIN specifications. It's readily available. Nothing special there. I say that.... I wouldn't tear any of it out just yet! Changing the voltages out to 240 volt, may require a larger starter if the existing one is not big enough to handle 15 HP on 240 volt. If it is big enough, just have to change out the heaters to the starter/contactor, if it has heaters. Europeans use some strange stuff for heaters. Those things in the upper top left of the picture, may be them, I don't know. If you decide to put different stuff in, give me a holler, I may have something here that will work.
Ken
Click to expand...
Ken,
I'm going to have to build it all from scratch. As far as I can tell, the only electrics on the lathe, anywhere, are the motor, the start and stop switch on the front, two broken switches that should be the lamp and the coolant pump, the oddball piece at the bottom of the headstock pedestal pictured above(the fuzzy picture). That's what I'm saying. The rest is absent. So I'm going to need to effectively build the whole electrical system. The only wiring on the lathe seems to be the cut off wires coming from the switch panel, and the cut off wires coming from the cooling pump socket on the back of the middle pedestal. So basically, I'm starting from scratch. I'm willing to assume that every electrical piece on the machine is bad, since there are few anyway. The only thing I hold out any hope of being okay is the motor, and that's a slim hope.

In terms of building the electrics from scratch, what I hope to do is to recreate all the functions if not the precise devices. I'll wait until I have the machine here, but I think I've found viable replacements for all the switches on the front panel. I don't know the first thing about what a 3 phase motor will require. Starters, heater(?), contactors, relays, I don't know what I'll need or how to wire it up. All I know is that my object is to have: A cooling pump and lamp socket, powered by hitting a switch each on the front panel, a motor start switch, and a motor off switch, along with the emergency kill switch(which by the way looks very ad hoc on my machine, as if it was something added for import due to OSHA regs or maybe something added late in the model run... Not sure. Looks very ad hoc in its box on the front the way it's placed.

So basically, start by figuring on a start and stop circuit and whatever it takes to make the motor go. Accessory sockets can come later. Whether I am able to use the existing motor, or have to buy a replacement or get that one repaired, it will be 240, 15hp. Once I get the lathe here, I'll look closer at the engine shaft.

I'm more than happy to buy what I need so far as parts. I just need to figure out a list and go with it. So all you 3 phase electrical/machine electrical wizards put on your thinking caps. I've a whole electrical system to build, more or less. I'll get an appropriately-sized enclosure for mounting in roughly the same place the original must have been.

By the way, looking at the weather may have pushed up my schedule to go get the lathe and bring it home. There's nothing but rain in forecast after Friday for the following week. We're just now dry enough I could get from the driveway to the barn. My window may be Thursday-Friday this week. After that, who knows? If that happens, and I come down Thursday or Friday, maybe a good chance to chat.

Thanks!

Mark
 
Mark,

Looking at the schematics you posted, I can come up with most of the things needed if wanted. The big question will be, what kind of electrical panel box is there on the lathe, provided it has one? If it does have a panel enclosure or "Hoffman enclosure", what is in the box now and will you be able to use any of it? The switch buttons on the front of the lathe are readily available, cheap!, off of eBay. I probably have all of them in my surplus stuff.
Let us know how you trip goes. And if you have the time, give me a holler and I'll buy you lunch! There's a half way decent Mexican food place a couple miles from Gene's Machine, on the same road, we can go eat at. Ken
 
4gsr said:
Mark,

Looking at the schematics you posted, I can come up with most of the things needed if wanted. The big question will be, what kind of electrical panel box is there on the lathe, provided it has one? If it does have a panel enclosure or "Hoffman enclosure", what is in the box now and will you be able to use any of it? The switch buttons on the front of the lathe are readily available, cheap!, off of eBay. I probably have all of them in my surplus stuff.
Let us know how you trip goes. And if you have the time, give me a holler and I'll buy you lunch! There's a half way decent Mexican food place a couple miles from Gene's Machine, on the same road, we can go eat at. Ken
Click to expand...

Ken, that's what I'm saying: The whole electrical panel is gone. Not present. Nothing there. All there is is the motor itself, that one little Doodad under the small square cover, (fuzzy picture) and the switches. There IS nothing else. The picture of the enclosure with the DIN stuff above is just something I found googling as part of my research. None of its contents are to be found anywhere on my lathe. None of it.
What's on my lathe:
Motor
Start and stop switch
Emergency kill switch
Coolant pump power receptacle
The snipped off wires from the switches and the receptacle.
That one broken piece under the cover at the bottom rear of the headstock pedestal.
I knew it was missing stuff, but it wasn't until yesterday that I realized it's missing that whole enclosure off the back of the gear case. That's when it finally made sense that I couldn't find any transformer or relays or contractors or fuses or any of what is in the pretty, modernized enclosure a few posts above. It's just gone. That caused me to speculate that the reason it's gone is because the motor is toast. It would be hard to even examine that motor closely with that panel in place.

As for lunch, I'm up for it. Just hope it's easy to get in and out of. LOL if I make the trip Thursday, I'm going to try to make it early, leave here by 6-630, there by 9:00-930, loaded and chained by 930-1000, brunch/lunch and haul the mail. Get it backed in the barn and wait for my next dry spell to get somebody out to load it on my dolly/cart, which should be done by then.(and along with dry weather will define "then.")

Once the Dolly's built and I'm waiting on a dry spell, I'll work the electrical. But I need to start gathering bits and pieces now.

Thanks!

Mark
 
Looks like C1 is the overload. Since you have to start from scratch, I would just build the panel to NEMA standards, and add an E-stop button and a control power button. The original had 220v control power to the panel buttons, that won't meet NEMA standards. That is normal European control wiring.

I think Ken has it under control, you're in good hands there.:)
 
JimDawson said:
Looks like C1 is the overload. Since you have to start from scratch, I would just build the panel to NEMA standards, and add an E-stop button and a control power button. The original had 220v control power to the panel buttons, that won't meet NEMA standards. That is normal European control wiring.

I think Ken has it under control, you're in good hands there.:)
Click to expand...

Jim, Yessir, I think you're right, and I think that's why Martin W's lathe has a transformer that steps down to 120 for controls. It was an eye opener 30 years ago as a young soldier when I arrived in Germany and found standard wall socket voltage was 220. Had to buy a transformer for anything that couldn't do both. Thankfully, all the better stereo equipment in the PX would do both via a switch or simple rewiring.

I wonder if there wouldn't be some utility in placing a second e-stop button somewhere on the carriage. I say that because I read an article following a fatal incident with some poor girl who got her hair caught in a lead screw, was working alone, it all ended badly.

Since I will almost certainly be working alone 99% of the time... Now, I have only slightly longer than mil hair, and I know about loose clothing and such, but I also know bad things can happen easily at times. I tend to plan things to death, which usually permits me to avoid trouble, but if that were perfect, I wouldn't have accumulated so many scars and busted knuckles along the way. It's expedience that usually gets you. So yeah, I've got no problem with adding/maintaining safety features.

I'm sure Ken will keep me in line... ;)

Thanks!

Mark
 
Crap!
I didn't realized all of the electrics were removed from the machine. Will have to watch for a Hoffman enclosure about 24" square by at least 9" deep, 12" would be ideal, 6" might work, but of you came back later and wanted to install a VFD, wouldn't be enough room for it! I'm on the road today heading back to Victoria. Give me a holler in the morning. I may still be wiped out from my trip, just depends on how traffic is, going down IH35 today. Ken
 
Try this one on for size. We found a company in Germany that still sells parts for the Martin DLZ. I asked my wife to find out what they have for available parts. She sent them an email, and the response was waiting on her this morning. They wanted model and sn, but for the parts list of what's available, they also want 60Euro. Ouch.

Mark
 
4gsr said:
Crap!
I didn't realized all of the electrics were removed from the machine. Will have to watch for a Hoffman enclosure about 24" square by at least 9" deep, 12" would be ideal, 6" might work, but of you came back later and wanted to install a VFD, wouldn't be enough room for it! I'm on the road today heading back to Victoria. Give me a holler in the morning. I may still be wiped out from my trip, just depends on how traffic is, going down IH35 today. Ken
Click to expand...
Yeah, the whole thing is gone. What will a VFD give me? I'm willing to hang a bigger box if I know what I'm planning for.

Thanks!

Mark
 
VFD basically is a variable speed electrical control with programmable accel/decel profiles, and reversing. IMO, with that machine you don't need the reverse. That motor will run (in its original configuration) in one direction, with reversing of the spindle coming from the gearbox. As far as the accel/decel that's a nicety, but hardly a necessity. A VFD can be set up with a brake, but their main claim to fame in the hobby world is the ability to run 3 phase equipment on single phase. HOWEVER, the size VFD for a 15 hp motor will be pretty healthy, and priced to match. You said you did not have native 3 phase, correct? Another issue you will need to address is the current draw for a motor that size. Even with 230/240 available, how much current? You're probably looking at ~40 amps continuous on that motor. It's on the plate if the plate is still there. That's another major factor in sizing a VFD. We have some here who are very well versed on VGD applications.

I personally am not a huge proponent of VFD's, but some people are. I have been around them and used them on a few things, up to 250 hp, so I do have some experience with them. On machine tools, I must have some bit of purist in my heart.....I like to see them as designed, for the most part.
 
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