First lathe, tool bits

[Eremius]

I think you know everything is relative, especially in the machinist trade.

Actually the best description I've heard is the only thing two machinists can agree on is the third one is an idiot.

 

[Reeltor]

MrPete222 aka Tubal Cain does have some great videos on tool bit grinding, when to use what/when etc. Adam Booth (ABomb79) and Tom Lipton (OxToolCo) did a series on how big a cut they could take on their respective lathes. I thought that they both had some real gems of information on different approaches to HSS lathe bits and grinding them. Don't hold me to it but I think it was Adam Booth who would rough out the bit by clamping it in a vise and using his 4-1/2" angle grinder. He made it look easy and fast, then he moved on to the bench grinder to finish it off. They call this series Chip Control.

This Old Tony recently published a video on his take on grinding HSS bits

Tubal Cain uses the tried and true oversized wood mock-ups of HSS tool bits to show the relief angles. The same visual aids that shop teachers used for decades (when schools had shops). I don't remember who it was who used a new approach to the visual aids on relief angles etc, might have been Dale with Metal Tips and Tricks.

 

[Jmanb13]

You don't mention if you have a good coolant system on your 15", but if you do and your set up is rigid, you will be missing a bet if you don't learn how to grind lipped cutting tools from HSS. For brute metal removal rates with the RPM range you state, they can't be beat, and they produce an acceptable finish with coolant. They are all we used before carbide and high RPM gigahorsepower lathes were common. The difference is that the removed metal comes off as a tightly coiled ribbon rather than as a chip that's breaking up and coolant flow is essential. The depth of cut can be 3/8" to 1/2" per pass depending on horsepower.

I do not have a coolant system. Definitely have thought about adding one at some point.

A 1946 LeBlond wasn't really designed for carbide so the high speed and the horsepower rating is for HSS, and back then, they were using CS. The high speeds devolped would be on tall gears so pushing a carbide cutter into the work surface would be based on HP. Working in reverse, the SFPM would slow and the quality of cut would go downhill also. Without knowing what horsepower the lathe has or the SFPM it can maintain, I was simply stating that HP comes into play.

I have a vintage Lodge & Shipley that I don't as yet know the age so I've spent a lot of time looking at the old machines. My father-in-law who gave me the lathe, purchased it sometime in the early 1950's. His 40+ year machinist career started in the early 1930's. When he gave me the 2-gal. can of misc. HSS and carbide cutters he explained the pros and cons. The cons for the carbide cutters are primarily the speed and feed rates required. At slow speeds the heat isn't transfered to the chip so it builds up in the work. The carbide inserts work better than the brazed tooling because they have a smaller surface and a built in chip breaker.

I'm not comparing my lathe to the LeBlonde because they are two diffrent machines with decades between their production. I think you know everything is relative, especially in the machinist trade. In regards to may comment, we can start with the quality of the carbide cutter. In 1946 the LeBlond operators manual was mentioning carbide as a cutter with minimum instructions on material-speed-feed etc. -Russ

This thing still has the original 1hp 203 frame 3 phase motor and it still works However the seals on it are bad and it leaks oil/grease like crazy. I'd like to get a new motor on it eventually, but I can't find any motor frame adapters for that frame. Not sure if it would be advisable to get a higher HP motor or not.

 

[Rustrp]

Actually the best description I've heard is the only thing two machinists can agree on is the third one is an idiot.

There's no need to deflect and bring the plumber into this. I'll add, I'm a novice machinist or less than. I have 40+ years working with metal but very little using machine tools unless my 4 1/2" grinder qualifies as a hand held surface grinder. My sheetmetal layout experience and training along with my welding experience gives me some depth into geometry, trigonometry and metalurgy, which are easily applied to machining. The question asked specific to the topic was on HSS cutting tools along with grinding and shaping. If my apprentice is working through the steps on making a simple pan, it would be futile for me to interject how I go about laying out a square to round transition with a compound offset. Maybe it's the hobbist aspect here that seems to take the threads onto many paths.

We can agree to disagree and I always stand by **I don't have to be wrong for you to be correct**. I agree with you on the large diameter being suited for the carbide cutter, but is the operator and the machine suited for the task. An underpowered machine with only carbide cutters to draw from could create the potential where a beginner never wants anything to do with machining again. The same could be true with HSS but not likely. When I ask the apprentice; Why are you doing that? Sometimes the response is; That's what you were doing! I saw you do it this way! I know I need to tune up my training or they have inserted a shortcut they don't have the experience to handle.

 

[Rustrp]

I do not have a coolant system. Definitely have thought about adding one at some point.




This thing still has the original 1hp 203 frame 3 phase motor and it still works However the seals on it are bad and it leaks oil/grease like crazy. I'd like to get a new motor on it eventually, but I can't find any motor frame adapters for that frame. Not sure if it would be advisable to get a higher HP motor or not.

In regards to more HP, I would lean that direction if there is protection for for the head. i.e. shear pins etc. Some HP ratings have changed. I would suggest taking the motor to a shop or see if they are willing to part with expertise at to the direction you take. What type of lubrication does the motor use, oil, grease, and what type of seals. Are the windings, armature open or enclosed. Replacing the seals may be an easy and inexpensive fix.

 

[Dinosaur Engineer]

I find that you can sometimes get real bargains in buying the larger HSS bits. Sizes above 1/2" are not used so much in industry as they used to be as most industrial M/cs are now equipped with carbide insert tools to get the improved speed/efficiency required. It is a bit of chore to grind the larger sizes but once ground they hold their edges reasonably well due to their increased heat conducting capacity.

 

[Reeltor]

Maybe you can find a manual or sales brochure at Vintage Machinery . org to see what hp motors were originally available for your lathe.

 

[4GSR]

This thing still has the original 1hp 203 frame 3 phase motor and it still works However the seals on it are bad and it leaks oil/grease like crazy. I'd like to get a new motor on it eventually, but I can't find any motor frame adapters for that frame. Not sure if it would be advisable to get a higher HP motor or not.

I've replaced many old motors with newer ones on machine tools over the years. You have to forget the old frame sizes and adapt the old motor base to accept the new motor. I just did one the other day on my 15" Sheldon lathe. Don't remember the original frame size, but had to mount a couple of pieces of 1/2 x 2 flat bar to the old base with new holes in place to mount the newer 182/184T frame motor. (Just realized this is off topic. Sorry!)

 

[Jmanb13]

Maybe you can find a manual or sales brochure at Vintage Machinery . org to see what hp motors were originally available for your lathe.

I have the "Running a Regal" from the model years of my lathe, but I did not see any motor ratings anywhere in the manual.

In regards to more HP, I would lean that direction if there is protection for for the head. i.e. shear pins etc. Some HP ratings have changed. I would suggest taking the motor to a shop or see if they are willing to part with expertise at to the direction you take. What type of lubrication does the motor use, oil, grease, and what type of seals. Are the windings, armature open or enclosed. Replacing the seals may be an easy and inexpensive fix.

It has grease zerks so i'm assuming its grease lubrication. Motor plate picture is attached.

I've replaced many old motors with newer ones on machine tools over the years. You have to forget the old frame sizes and adapt the old motor base to accept the new motor. I just did one the other day on my 15" Sheldon lathe. Don't remember the original frame size, but had to mount a couple of pieces of 1/2 x 2 flat bar to the old base with new holes in place to mount the newer 182/184T frame motor. (Just realized this is off topic. Sorry!)

I will probably have to do something similar. I have found a few places that list a part number for a readily made adapter from 203 to 143T, but nowhere that sells them. This did get slightly off topic, but only because the use of Carbide inserts leads to discussions on RPM and cutting speeds which leads to how fast/powerful is my lathe

 

[Bob Korves]

I have the "Running a Regal" from the model years of my lathe, but I did not see any motor ratings anywhere in the manual.

A book on how to run a lathe will often cover many different models, and so will not show the details for them all. Do you have a parts or operation manual for your lathe? Do you know the model number of it?