ER32 Fail (Learn from my mistakes)

Ray C said:
This is no great concern at all and I originally, simply requested a return of defective material. The seller came back over several days wanting detailed problem descriptions, pictures, measuring techniques etc... I've been going along with it. At no time ever did I say anything mean or demeaning. -That's not how I do business. Because of his reluctance to just settle with a return/refund, I suspect this guy is a scammer and my gut feeling is that he knows he's selling a batch of QC reject devices. He's trying to push this past the 30 day refund period. It's already been 2 weeks.

A great deal of the equipment in my shop is lower-cost Asian stuff and the vast majority of it has proven to be a good value... Good heavens, my part-time shop would sink in a heartbeat without this low cost stuff.

Ray
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If the seller won't play ball, instead of wasting your time, just put in a complaint with eBay, they will follow it up, and if the goods do not fit the description, they will make him refund full price and possibly even postage. I have done this and it works. Also if you paid with PayPal they have certain guarantees so check with them.
 
Ray C said:
Mike (Mikey) raises a good point. On the mill, you want your tool holding devices to be as true as possible. On a lathe, it's less critical. An endmill takes a severe beating while doing it's job. If the holder is not spinning the cutting bit true, it's causing an extra dimension of abuse to that tool. Spinning at 1000 RPM with say 0.006" TIR, causes repetitive damage each time the cutter has to slam into the material again. It's also putting continuous internal bending strains on the tool. Tool life will be greatly diminished. This is like having a continuous interrupted cut on a lathe. On a lathe, if the work piece is not perfectly true, it will be after the first pass.

As for the Glacern ER32/R8 chuck... It has not arrived so, I cannot comment on it's quality. It at least cited tolerances specs and was in stock on their main website. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Yes, as budget permits and as needs/desires motivate, a set of both SAE and metric collets is worth considering. It really helps to use the closest size possible.

Ray
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All,

As a quick follow-up, the Glacern ER32/R8 chuck arrived the other day. It's very good quality and runs in the same level of tolerance as mentioned in this post about this ER40 chuck. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/decent-er40-r8-collet-chuck-and-collets.68962/ Even though they are from different vendors and manufacturers, they are running neck-and-neck about the same.

I am not affiliated in any way with these vendors. Also, the results I'm citing are from one-time purchases and don't know if their QC is good over the long haul. Given the good attention to detail and craftsmanship, I tend to think both manufacturers know what they are doing...

As for the eBay vendor who sold me a bad unit... I cannot get him to ask the manufacturer to cite any tolerance specs. Also, the vendor is only offering a $10 refund -which (in my opinion) is poor business and in poor taste.

Ray
 
Ray C said:
All,

As a quick follow-up, the Glacern ER32/R8 chuck arrived the other day. It's very good quality and runs in the same level of tolerance as mentioned in this post about this ER40 chuck. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/decent-er40-r8-collet-chuck-and-collets.68962/ Even though they are from different vendors and manufacturers, they are running neck-and-neck about the same.

I am not affiliated in any way with these vendors. Also, the results I'm citing are from one-time purchases and don't know if their QC is good over the long haul. Given the good attention to detail and craftsmanship, I tend to think both manufacturers know what they are doing...

As for the eBay vendor who sold me a bad unit... I cannot get him to ask the manufacturer to cite any tolerance specs. Also, the vendor is only offering a $10 refund -which (in my opinion) is poor business and in poor taste.

Ray
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Did the vendor make any claims as to quality and or accuracy when you bought it? If it doesn't meet those claims then eBay and or Pay Pal will follow it up for you.
 
Downunder Bob said:
Did the vendor make any claims as to quality and or accuracy when you bought it? If it doesn't meet those claims then eBay and or Pay Pal will follow it up for you.
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In the original listing (which has subsequently been changed) it said "Adjust tool if runout exceeds 0.0004 inch".

Anyhow, what matters to me is this seller is selling junk and given all my correspondence with them, they know it is. I asked him if he could sell one that runs less than 0.001" TIR and he won't commit to that. This tells me he's probably had similar complaints, and that whole lot is bad, and won't take a chance on sending another.

I could write a bad product review for it but, eBay vendors can take those down any time they want.
 
That's interesting I didn't know they could take down a bad revue. Most sellers will prefer to negotiate if you tell them your going to give a bad revue. Try putting it in the feed back.
 
Ha, thanks, I have an ER32 collet and did not know that. Makes a lot of sense now!
 
Downunder Bob said:
If the seller won't play ball, instead of wasting your time, just put in a complaint with eBay, they will follow it up, and if the goods do not fit the description, they will make him refund full price and possibly even postage. I have done this and it works. Also if you paid with PayPal they have certain guarantees so check with them.
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If we do not keep the sellers honest, and let them get away with poor business practices, then things will keep getting worse, and we will only have ourselves to blame. Do not accept anything that does not come as represented, regardless of price or the seller dragging his feet. We must insist on a transparent and fair buying experience or take our business elsewhere.
 
Bob Korves said:
If we do not keep the sellers honest, and let them get away with poor business practices, then things will keep getting worse, and we will only have ourselves to blame. Do not accept anything that does not come as represented, regardless of price or the seller dragging his feet. We must insist on a transparent and fair buying experience or take our business elsewhere.
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Absolutely even if you think it's only a few dollars, take your complaint to the highest level, the main reason we get so much rubbish foisted on us is we don't complain enough. There is a generally accepted standard for ER collets, even the cheapest should conform to that standard.
 
Well, here's the product review given after not hearing from the seller after my last request for full refund or replacement with a non-defective unit.
I'm not sure if my review is published yet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3-R8-ER3...C-Milling-Lathe-Tool-With-Wrench/222763079394

As measured from the ER32 collet taper surface, this ran with varying TIR between 0.004 to 0.009". Different TIR each time it was installed in mill. The R8 taper is not cut properly and only makes contact in one area. The drawbar end measures 0.944" which 0.005" shy of the R8 specification. That dimension is critical to help the taper seat properly. Other known good R8 devices in this mill run with less than 0.0003" TIR. Mill is in perfect condition. TIR was so bad with this chuck, it can be seen by eye, w/o measuring tools.

The ER32 orifice shows very bad chatter marks and feels uneven to fingertip touch. With a known set of good ER32 collets, pin gages were measuring as much as 0.011" TIR -enough to break cutting tools.

Unit was shipped promptly -no problem there. Unused item. Requested refund or replacement. Seller first offered refund of $5 then finally $10. See photos: Seller gets this product review in-lieu of giving full refund or replacement with non-defective unit.

IMG_20180412_212709.jpgIMG_20180413_204433.jpgIMG_20180413_204551.jpg
 
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