ER32 Fail (Learn from my mistakes)

[mikey]

Since we're on the subject... What are some good hobbyist-quality brands to look for? I'm thinking of getting an ER32 collet nut and some collets for my lathe. I would make the holder myself.

If you're going to use the collets on a lathe then I suggest you buy a complete Chinese set on ebay. You do not need to go with quality collets for work holding on the lathe; import collets will be close enough for most work. Using a good nut will help accuracy, even with these cheap collets.

If you are using the collets on the mill for tool holding then buy the best you can afford. The cheapest "good" collets I know of are the Techniks brand; runout in the low tenths and possibly better if the chuck and the nut are good. In order of cost, Lyndex, Crawford, ETM and Rego-Fix are other good brands.

Buy a decent nut because it makes a difference. Rego-Fix Hi-Q nuts are very, very good. ETM nuts are just as good. I have not tried them but Techniks is said to make a good hardened nut. Rego-Fix also makes a ball bearing nut that I haven't tried ... yet.

I use a 3 jaw chuck to do first operation turning on the lathe. I only use the ER collets to hold turned or threaded parts for second operations. This gives you accuracy when you need it and you aren't cranking down on stock that is uneven. For the occasions where I have a lot of nominal stock to turn, I use 5C collets that are intended for such work.

 

[Ray C]

Mike (Mikey) raises a good point. On the mill, you want your tool holding devices to be as true as possible. On a lathe, it's less critical. An endmill takes a severe beating while doing it's job. If the holder is not spinning the cutting bit true, it's causing an extra dimension of abuse to that tool. Spinning at 1000 RPM with say 0.006" TIR, causes repetitive damage each time the cutter has to slam into the material again. It's also putting continuous internal bending strains on the tool. Tool life will be greatly diminished. This is like having a continuous interrupted cut on a lathe. On a lathe, if the work piece is not perfectly true, it will be after the first pass.

As for the Glacern ER32/R8 chuck... It has not arrived so, I cannot comment on it's quality. It at least cited tolerances specs and was in stock on their main website. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Yes, as budget permits and as needs/desires motivate, a set of both SAE and metric collets is worth considering. It really helps to use the closest size possible.

Ray

 

[xxxx_guy]

Thanks for your replies. I've attached a few photos of me attaching a collet correctly and incorrectly in order to help some newbs, like myself.
Photos 1 and 2 show the ER Collet correctly installed in the holder (it should click in with the area between the front and back slopes clicking into the nut). Photos 3,4,5, & 6 show the collet incorrectly installed (hasn't been clicked into the holder nut). Photo 7 shows the ER collet holder nut (the internal rim is where the collet clicks into).
As for Ebay items, they are usually cheap without specs, some are great others are nasty. It all depends on the project in regards to tolerances. I may be making an arm to replace a broken arm on a 3 in 1 press brake, guilotine and rollers which will need to be within a few millimeters (about 0.1 of an inch - adjustment available), whilst another project I contemplate is trying to make an indexed head, whereby the more accuracy the better. However what Ray C is talking about ultimately causes only 1 cutter to contact the surface instead of multiple heads, so the one head wears out way quicker, and the machine has considerably vibration as it essentially hits, misses, misses, misses (depending on the number of edges on the cutter) then hits again, so the rate of advancement into the surface has to be greatly reduced or the vibration greatly increases since one head is doing the depth of cutting of multiple heads. I have experienced this with a machine made to grind back welds in corners. Not sure if it is the bit or the machine, but it is handheld and jumps because only one surface is contacting the weld and taking all the force rather than all the cutter surfaces evenly.

 

[25ring]

The Force is strong in this one!

Good job.

Just as a reminder to folks, be careful about some of those really bargain-bin, low-cost ER32 collet chucks. I just purchased one with an R8 shank (to use on my other mill) and it's an absolute piece of junk. TIR measuring from the internal collet taper averages about 0.006" (six thou, not six tenths-thou) depending on how it's seated. I thought for a moment my spindle was bent but, a good quality ER40-R8 in that same mill repeatably measures 0.0004" TIR. Sigh of relief!!!

At $26, it's not worth my time/trouble to return it. It's a nice piece of steel and maybe I'll "re-purpose" it.

Anyhow xxxx_guy, good job and thanks for sharing.


Ray

You might want to reconsider on returning it.I bought the exact same one with the same problem through ebay,seller paid for the return shipping and refunded my money. FWIW

 

[RJSakowski]

Regarding loading an ER collet, the collet should always be inserted into the nut first.

I come in at angle with a slight rotation to capture the collet. If the collet has been loaded correctly, it will not fall out when the nut is inverted. Then I insert the assembly into the chuck body and tighten a turn or two to capture the assembly. Then I insert the tool or workpiece and tighten.

 

[Ray C]

You might want to reconsider on returning it.I bought the exact same one with the same problem through ebay,seller paid for the return shipping and refunded my money. FWIW

Must have been a different seller. After initiating the return request, the seller has asked for pictures, asked for barcodes (which do not exist), asked for procedures on how I took measurements etc. So far, I've given him a good machine-shop lesson. I sent him the same information I posted in this thread. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/diagnosing-bad-er32-r8-collet-chuck.68829/ The seller is offering to refund $5 to the paypal account. The eBay ad says full refund and full return shipping. I'm having a fun exchange with the seller. My last response was "Why would I be satisfied with $5.00 refund when I paid $27?".

I got bigger fish to fry but, plan to continue talking to this seller. Normally, I don't pursue refunds on small amounts. This unit is pure junk and it bugs me when unsuspecting hobbyists buy stuff like this and spend hours trying to figure-out what the heck is wrong.

Here's the seller and picture of unit. It's the same unit sold by many, many different sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3-R8-ER3...m=222763079394&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507
Ray

 

[25ring]

Must have been a different seller. After initiating the return request, the seller has asked for pictures, asked for barcodes (which do not exist), asked for procedures on how I took measurements etc. So far, I've given him a good machine-shop lesson. I sent him the same information I posted in this thread. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/diagnosing-bad-er32-r8-collet-chuck.68829/ The seller is offering to refund $5 to the paypal account. The eBay ad says full refund and full return shipping. I'm having a fun exchange with the seller. My last response was "Why would I be satisfied with $5.00 refund when I paid $27?".

I got bigger fish to fry but, plan to continue talking to this seller. Normally, I don't pursue refunds on small amounts. This unit is pure junk and it bugs me when unsuspecting hobbyists buy stuff like this and spend hours trying to figure-out what the heck is wrong.

Here's the seller and picture of unit. It's the same unit sold by many, many different sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3-R8-ER32-7-16-Collet-Chuck-Holder-16CM-CNC-Milling-Lathe-Tool-With-Wrench/222763079394?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=65eb4143d762402181a8c8a892b1e573&pid=100290&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=222763079394&itm=222763079394&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507
Ray

RayC,I agree,it may not be worth your time to persue,but I'm retired so I would have no problem going after people like this.I hope you can get ebay envolved and get the full amount refunded,good luck!--Mike.

 

[Doubleeboy]

The Force is strong in this one!

Good job.

Just as a reminder to folks, be careful about some of those really bargain-bin, low-cost ER32 collet chucks. I just purchased one with an R8 shank (to use on my other mill) and it's an absolute piece of junk. TIR measuring from the internal collet taper averages about 0.006" (six thou, not six tenths-thou) depending on how it's seated. I thought for a moment my spindle was bent but, a good quality ER40-R8 in that same mill repeatably measures 0.0004" TIR. Sigh of relief!!!

At $26, it's not worth my time/trouble to return it. It's a nice piece of steel and maybe I'll "re-purpose" it.

Anyhow xxxx_guy, good job and thanks for sharing.


Ray

Ray frequently when I have bought a low dollar item and had a problem, I have calmly described the problem with seller and asked them how they would like to proceed. The guys from China on ebay usual

 

[Doubleeboy]

I have bought ER chucks out of China on aliexpress or banggood and the sellers gave specs on runout. Not balanced to 20,000 rpm but pretty nice stuff for $30 delivered. Less than a thou of runout on end of dowel pin mounted on machine. I can live with that. At one third the cost of buying one from Shars, I figured I took my chances and if I had to toss one it would be a cheap lesson learned.

 

[Ray C]

Ray frequently when I have bought a low dollar item and had a problem, I have calmly described the problem with seller and asked them how they would like to proceed. The guys from China on ebay usual

This is no great concern at all and I originally, simply requested a return of defective material. The seller came back over several days wanting detailed problem descriptions, pictures, measuring techniques etc... I've been going along with it. At no time ever did I say anything mean or demeaning. -That's not how I do business. Because of his reluctance to just settle with a return/refund, I suspect this guy is a scammer and my gut feeling is that he knows he's selling a batch of QC reject devices. He's trying to push this past the 30 day refund period. It's already been 2 weeks.

A great deal of the equipment in my shop is lower-cost Asian stuff and the vast majority of it has proven to be a good value... Good heavens, my part-time shop would sink in a heartbeat without this low cost stuff.

Ray