[Newbie] Did I get the wrong oil?

I went down the oil rabbit hole after purchasing my lathe, and came away with the understanding that R&O Turbine oil is the "right stuff" when it comes to gearbox lubrication. This is a lubricating oil, not hydraulic oil. Thing is, though, many people use hydraulic oil, and it seems to work just fine.View attachment 445196

I won't disagree with that at all. An R&O type oil is, generically speaking, more appropriate for a low temperature, low load, low stress gearbox. No matter how badazz you think your lathe is.... It's not stressing the oil hard enough to use the additional quantity of anti wear (AW) properties in an AW type oil. We're talking about orders of magnitude of difference between when an AW series becomes required. Note I did say "generically speaking". If an AW oil is called out, an AW oil should be installed.



Have seen this debated ad nauseam. FWIW my $.02 Bottom line is hydraulic oil is "generally" not formatted for gears and is formatted to suspend particles to be captured by a filter.

I think you're still confused. We're talking about two different hydraulic oils here. DTE, numbered or named, is hydraulic oil, even though Mobil chose to call their R&O product a circulating oil. That's valid nomenclature as well


Gear oils are formatted to let particles settle into a sump. What do most lathes have, a filter or a sump?

Gear oil particulate handling and hydraulic oil particulate handling can be found any way you'd like it. You can't rule out a whole category over one or another product....

You can do your own research. Some use hydraulic regardless because they have it and report no issues.

I really take issue with that. Some use it because it is what is specified. Some use it because it is the modern equivalant of what was specified. Some use it because modern oils are not what they were literally ten years ago, and it will more than likely be fine even if it is off label. And yeah, I'm sure that somebody still had a half a gallon stash of it in a widow washer jug, and just threw it in because oil is oil....

The Mobil "Named" oils are formatted for gears.

Mobil named series are no more formatted for gears than any other R&O hydraulic oil. Nor are they "not" formatted for gears. Most hydraulic systems have gears at one end or the other, or both, as well as bearings, bushings, etc. Mobil comes up all the time because they are is a benchmark in the category. The one that comperable offerings are compared to in specs, design, testing, and real world results. That's why they come up so often.

The Chevron oil listed above is considered by many to be the equivalent and some report it's easier to still find in smaller containers.

Ron

Which chevron listed above? The AW Hydraulic series, or the GST series?
 
I concede the debate and admit I'm not qualified to offer any assistance. Sorry if my opinion caused any harm.

I was taught if you have a manual, use it.

If you don't have a manual and they are available, then, IMHO, it worth purchasing one.

If a manual isn't available, or is out of date like my 10EE manual from Monarch regarding lubrication, consult with people who can provide a citation, reference or strong relative experience. A technical representative, or an actual tribologist. My opinion is based on reading many, many forum postings on the subject out of couriosty. Maybe 1% had citations that could be verified. Anything else is opinion.
I simply tried to pass on the opinions, as I stated, that might help.

Looking forward to reading your citations so I can learn more than I know now. Appreciate the time you give to assist others.
 
I was taught if you have a manual, use it.

That, in all honesty, is the best advice you'll find anywhere.

If a manual isn't available, or is out of date like my 10EE manual from Monarch regarding lubrication, consult with people who can provide a citation, reference or strong relative experience. A technical representative, or an actual tribologist.

I'm going to take the "strong relative experience" category. I keep up the mechanical things for a diverse company, ranging from earthmoving stuff, to landscaping and hardscaping equipment, to a fleet of tow trucks. And lord knows how many "incidental" things that probably don't have any proper category. When I took over this position, things were in a bad way.... These days we've got 14 small tow trucks, 5 class 7 ones, on a ten year replacement, ranging from nearly new to theoretically ten years old. A couple survived the rust longer, I think 14 years is our oldest. Last tally was just under seven and a quarter million miles. Some of the loaders are over 30,000 hours. It used to be a big deal when they hit five or six... Of course that's not all about the oil, but obviously that's the big ticket repairs. Pumps, drive motors, engines, transmissions, and so forth. Component failures so expensive that they'll take an otherwise very serviceable unit out of sersomething "llight duty" such asvice, with no residual value besides the scrap steel. I learned early on that the advertising department (from any company, even the good ones) doesn't give a rat's tail about my equipment. As the internet got big, it took about zero time to figure out that the internet doesn't WANT to understand oil. The internet wants a one word answer to oil, and there is not. My experience, and what I write comes from countless hours on the phone with the technical folks from varioius oil distributors over the years, as well as the manufacturers who offer that to smaller accounts. We're big in my world, but microscopic in the corporate world. Not every oil company offers that to just anyone, even "small" customers like we are. So my citations are quite weak in that they are absolutely 99 percent "hearsay" I guess, but while it's not all by phone any more, some stuff does come over the internet, the sources are not "the internet at large".

Looking forward to reading your citations

When I asked about the cross reference between the DTE light and Chevron GST 32, I was leading up to a case in point. These are very comparable, top tier products in a heap of different applications, but the GST, according to Chevron, clearly says that theirs is not for gears. They want you in their AW category for that. You can google yourself there by using "Chevron GST", that gets you the least scrolling to get to a Chevron site instead of a reseller/distributor, who are collectively very prone to shortening or generalizing the original statements.


What does "not for gears" mean to all those folks who have used the very commonly noted similarity and interchange between GST and the Mobil, which as I said, is a benchmark, but is not typically so conveniently available outside of industry? Obviously something, but probably not that much low horsepower application. Possibly not a tangible difference in a lifetime (probably VERY dpendant on any given lathe saddle in this case). But as horsepower through the gears in question rise, at some point in the power transmission scale that issue will be front and center...

Why did I jump on that point so quick? Because this is a rare case where you can skip the internet, and literally just go to the products page, and find a (nearly) accurate, one word answer for the difference, straight from the source. They have a very different approach to boundary and elastohydrodynamic protections in high stress/high pressure applications. That leads to a very unintuitive and backwards conclusion. The heavier duty, more capable oil, (the GST) in a very non intuitive way, offers far, far less protection in the case of the machines we are dealing with.

Go to the source.
Don't trust interchanges to pick a product, use them to hasten the process of doing your own comparison.
Never trust the internet at large. Even if they sound like they're on top of things. That includes me.
 
Again, for what it is worth, the industrial oil distributor recommended Chevron Regal R&O as the direct comparison to DTE named series, not GST.

I will add one caveat to the manual being the best information thing. I've found that Chinese or even some Taiwan machine manuals are not perfect. The lathes are copies of old designs, often Colchester, and the information can be copied from the old manuals as well and might be restating 75 year old information. In addition, machines are updated far more often than pictures or manuals. If you own an old Monarch you know what i mean.

My point is that a recommendation for hydraulic oil on a manual lathe should be treated with at least some question. I've got 75 year old manuals that seem to interchange hydraulic and reciprocating oils somewhat but oil formulations have evolved far more than manual lathe design which is essentially unchanged except for cost engineering. Given that Precision Matthews and Eisen lathes are very similar, I'd go with the recommendations from PM. I believe the people selling those machines have some input into the manual information.

Dave
 
Given that Precision Matthews and Eisen lathes are very similar, I'd go with the recommendations from PM. I believe the people selling those machines have some input into the manual information.

Dave
Pretty much what I’m leaning towards. I think I’ll skip the light weight ISO 32 as it’s seeping out of the non-grommeted locations of the apron anyways.
 
Damn! I love me a good oil thread!

My lathe manual specifically mentions Mobile DTE Light, which led me to search out equivalents. I found a couple of different references stating Chevron GST is a match. There is also reference to Chevron Regal as well. I think we are really splitting hairs now between oils like these. In the end, I bought the Mobile. The previous owner used hydraulic oil, which was still clean, so I was happy to see he took care of the machine. Splitting hairs on the type of oil is of lesser importance to me than just changing the oil with something decent.
 
For goodness sake....

Oil.

Not the stuff that eats brass.

Close to the viscosity specified.

Change on a regular basis.

Way oil is tackier, like chainsaw chain oil but how quickly/frequently are you moving your carriage back and forth?

If you bought the machine new check with the seller for recommendations.

We're not running top fuel dragsters here.... Or CNC machines that run at full capacity churning out thousands of parts.

Unless I'm mistaken we're talking about home hobby shop use that might total a few hundred hours a year, mostly doing light duty compared to what the machine is engineered for.

We have some serious chemists here who can get into the nitty-gritty aspects of any particular oil but often the exact makeup of proprietary blends is not available outside the company. It's also known that oil companies all source from each other when needed.

I used to build high performance racing kart engines and I've watched guys come to blows over which oil is better. IMHO, the OP will be fine using what he bought but a quick call to Eisen will straighten it out. The lubrication specs for his lathe probably assume at least one, if not two full shifts of running per day all year round. Hobby work is far less demanding than industrial/production use. Yes, when I got my first lathe up I spend a bunch of $$ getting the "correct" oils. Do I think it made a difference? No. I now use Tractor Supply VP "hydraulic tractor oil", works for me.

Buying a new machine is a big investment and I understand the desire to get every aspect of operating and maintaining it correct. I'm responsible for maintaining an entire factory worth of machines at my current job and have to purchase specialty oils for vacuum pumps and the like. Many manufacturers recommend their own products, maybe because they're better or maybe because they can mark up stuff they get in 55gal barrels. For this application I'll go with their recommendation because a failure could cost thousands of dollars per hour the machine is down. Nothing in my home shop falls into that category.

If Eisen gives an ISO spec then go with that, if you have questions about a specific product check with them.

JMHO

John
 
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