Cheap Chinese bandsaw issues etc.

It's hard to quantify the difference in blade life unless you are doing production sawing. For most of us hobbyists, coolant is just a pain in the a** and not worth the hassle. There is not much heat generated when band-sawing due to the short time in the cut and long time out. Some people will use a drip or squirt bottle of coolant, but if you've ever dealt with a pump and tank of coolant, you will avoid it if at all possible. I don't miss coming home smelling of rancid coolant. My wife doesn't miss it either.

I would totally agree with MrWhoopee. I've been using a Startrite horizontal bandsaw for over 23 years. It's coolant capable, but I never use it for the reasons he stated. I usually get a couple years or more out of a blade with daily use. I have 3 different pitch blades the finest is 10/14 variable pitch, then the 8/12 variable pitch. and finally, the 6/10 variable pitch is the coarsest.

Like your saw mine has 3 speeds 60 fpm, 100 fpm, and 160 fpm. I set the down pressure of the blade to 6 psi per the user's manual. With the 10/14 blade I've been known to cut material as large as 6" in diameter with no problems. I always use the lowest speed regardless of the material. On the larger material I reduce the down pressure to around 3 psi. It may take a little longer but pays off in blade life and quality of cut.

One big thing that extends blade life is a blade cleaning brush at the exit of the cut. It keeps the gullets clean and the blade from seizing in the kerf. I have used the wax stick on occasion, but generally avoid it. The wax fills with swarf and gets deposited on the blade guides and rollers on the exit end of the cut. I have found a quick spritz of WD40 or other liquid cutting oil does an equally good job and doesn't fowl up the guides and rollers.

It's possible your down feed dampener may be getting low on oil. When that happens the saw head will drop suddenly. While it may only be a mm or so it's generally enough to catch a tooth and cause the blade to jam or slip off the wheels. Over the years I've had to add oil and purge the cylinder a couple times. Each time it's been only an ounce or so of oil, but the level has been enough for the saw head to drop suddenly. Every once in a while, I run the saw through its paces without cutting any stock. It allows me to see if the blade is tracking properly, the down feed it steady, and the saw is shutting off at the proper time.

According to the manual supplied with my machine the proper way to set the guides is to loosen the blade guides and rollers. Then place a piece of .001" shim stock along the edge of the blade in the guides and gently squeeze together them until they touch the blade and shim. Then tighten them in place. If the saw head is aligned properly, you should be able to get a cut that doesn't vary more than .003" from top to bottom or front to back.

Here's a manual for a saw similar to the one you have. This one is a Baileigh BS-128M.

ON EDIT: There are only 4 reviews of this machine on the Baileigh website. None seem to be flattering. They all site the same problems you are having. That being said if you have a good eye and look over things closely, I think you'll be a keep able to find the reasons your blades coming off and correct the problems.

I have one of their CS-350EU cold saws. Some people have reported having problems with them. In my case It took a while to rebuild it, but I can't say I've had any troubles with it. When it's setup properly and operated within specs it turns out good product with no problems.
 

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I have a similar horizonal band saw and usually spray WD40 on the blade while cutting.

Projectnut, how do you determine the downforce PSI?
 
I would totally agree with MrWhoopee. I've been using a Startrite horizontal bandsaw for over 23 years. It's coolant capable, but I never use it for the reasons he stated. I usually get a couple years or more out of a blade with daily use. I have 3 different pitch blades the finest is 10/14 variable pitch, then the 8/12 variable pitch. and finally, the 6/10 variable pitch is the coarsest.

Thank you for a detailed reply and the manual. It is very interesting that you can cut 6in material with 14tpi blade. I was quite disappointed when I was repeatedly told by various sellers the coarsest blade they have is 6tpi. But based on your experience with 14tpi. My 6tpi should be fine too.

The way they advise to adjust blade tracking is also new to me

Compress_20230320_145829_9382.jpg
I always thought entire blade should be on the roller, but it seems the correct way is for its teeth to be past the roller.


Like your saw mine has 3 speeds 60 fpm, 100 fpm, and 160 fpm. I set the down pressure of the blade to 6 psi per the user's manual. With the 10/14 blade I've been known to cut material as large as 6" in diameter with no problems. I always use the lowest speed regardless of the material. On the larger material I reduce the down pressure to around 3 psi. It may take a little longer but pays off in blade life and quality of cut.

The downfeed knob on my saw has some numbers, from 0 to 8. I imagine it is to divide it into 10 settings. There is no psi setting. I could drop the speed, but then it would require an even slower downfeed which is not great...

I tend to do most cuts between 6 and 8. 6 moves down visibly fast. 8 is pretty stationary. I tend to start the cut closer to 6 and if the blade gets stuck I lift the saw slightly and I move it the tiniest bit towards 8. On very slow feeds, tiny movement of the valve makes a big difference. Also the saw essentially falls under gravity and the cylinder just slows it down. I imagine the pressure on the blade is limited to the weight of the saw. Also the more vertical it is the less weight it applies which is not ideal, but its not that noticeable while cutting.

One big thing that extends blade life is a blade cleaning brush at the exit of the cut. It keeps the gullets clean and the blade from seizing in the kerf. I have used the wax stick on occasion, but generally avoid it. The wax fills with swarf and gets deposited on the blade guides and rollers on the exit end of the cut. I have found a quick spritz of WD40 or other liquid cutting oil does an equally good job and doesn't fowl up the guides and rollers.

I do use wd40 too, but mainly for aluminium. I have to look into how to install a blade brush. I do have chips everywhere when I vacuum it (including the inside).

It's possible your down feed dampener may be getting low on oil. When that happens the saw head will drop suddenly. While it may only be a mm or so it's generally enough to catch a tooth and cause the blade to jam or slip off the wheels. Over the years I've had to add oil and purge the cylinder a couple times. Each time it's been only an ounce or so of oil, but the level has been enough for the saw head to drop suddenly. Every once in a while, I run the saw through its paces without cutting any stock. It allows me to see if the blade is tracking properly, the down feed it steady, and the saw is shutting off at the proper time.

I never noticed it jumping down, but I'll have to open that cylinder and clean it. I wonder as I never use downfeed faster than "6" or slower than "8". Perhaps I should find thicker oil and fill the cylinder with it? This way I would have more precise control if 6-8 range becomes let's say 4~8.

According to the manual supplied with my machine the proper way to set the guides is to loosen the blade guides and rollers. Then place a piece of .001" shim stock along the edge of the blade in the guides and gently squeeze together them until they touch the blade and shim. Then tighten them in place. If the saw head is aligned properly, you should be able to get a cut that doesn't vary more than .003" from top to bottom or front to back.

The problem I have with the blade setting is not so much how tight to set the bearing guides, but how to set the entire guide. The guide is the assembly that contains 3 bearings, one on top and 2 each from a side. The whole thing swivels on one screw. Hopefully this image shows it well. It is the front guide. It swivels on screw number 65. It looks on this picture as if there is some locating feature between part 63 and the one it attaches to, but there isn't. One is supposed to eyeball it. It's impossible to get right just by watching, using a square etc. It will always cut an arc. Unless one loosens the screw just a tiniest bit and one taps if gently to move an invisible amount repeatedly... I wouldn't be surprised if bad reviews were because of it.
Compress_20230320_152031_1234.jpg

Here's a manual for a saw similar to the one you have. This one is a Baileigh BS-128M.

ON EDIT: There are only 4 reviews of this machine on the Baileigh website. None seem to be flattering. They all site the same problems you are having. That being said if you have a good eye and look over things closely, I think you'll be a keep able to find the reasons your blades coming off and correct the problems.

I have one of their CS-350EU cold saws. Some people have reported having problems with them. In my case It took a while to rebuild it, but I can't say I've had any troubles with it. When it's setup properly and operated within specs it turns out good product with no problems.
Indeed, those saws are nit bad machines, but adjusting them probably takes a lot of fiddling and many test cuts. Once dialled in, it works well, when it doesn't... It takes some time...
 
I have a similar horizonal band saw and usually spray WD40 on the blade while cutting.

Projectnut, how do you determine the downforce PSI?
The saw has a spring with an adjustable anchor point at the pivot end of the head. I fully open the cylinder flow valve just to the left of the light in the first picture. Then attach a spring scale similar to this to the blade tightening knob (small black object on the left end of the saw below and to the left of the Startrite plaque on the front of the machine.


I then raise the head and pick an anchor point for the spring that allows between 5 lbs. and 10 lbs. of down force with the valve fully open. I then close the valve and slowly open it until I have 6 psi of pressure on the scale. I mark that point and make a reference point on the front of the saw with a magic marker.
 

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Thank you for a detailed reply and the manual. It is very interesting that you can cut 6in material with 14tpi blade. I was quite disappointed when I was repeatedly told by various sellers the coarsest blade they have is 6tpi. But based on your experience with 14tpi. My 6tpi should be fine too.

The way they advise to adjust blade tracking is also new to me

View attachment 441844
I always thought entire blade should be on the roller, but it seems the correct way is for its teeth to be past the roller.




The downfeed knob on my saw has some numbers, from 0 to 8. I imagine it is to divide it into 10 settings. There is no psi setting. I could drop the speed, but then it would require an even slower downfeed which is not great...

I tend to do most cuts between 6 and 8. 6 moves down visibly fast. 8 is pretty stationary. I tend to start the cut closer to 6 and if the blade gets stuck I lift the saw slightly and I move it the tiniest bit towards 8. On very slow feeds, tiny movement of the valve makes a big difference. Also the saw essentially falls under gravity and the cylinder just slows it down. I imagine the pressure on the blade is limited to the weight of the saw. Also the more vertical it is the less weight it applies which is not ideal, but its not that noticeable while cutting.



I do use wd40 too, but mainly for aluminium. I have to look into how to install a blade brush. I do have chips everywhere when I vacuum it (including the inside).



I never noticed it jumping down, but I'll have to open that cylinder and clean it. I wonder as I never use downfeed faster than "6" or slower than "8". Perhaps I should find thicker oil and fill the cylinder with it? This way I would have more precise control if 6-8 range becomes let's say 4~8.



The problem I have with the blade setting is not so much how tight to set the bearing guides, but how to set the entire guide. The guide is the assembly that contains 3 bearings, one on top and 2 each from a side. The whole thing swivels on one screw. Hopefully this image shows it well. It is the front guide. It swivels on screw number 65. It looks on this picture as if there is some locating feature between part 63 and the one it attaches to, but there isn't. One is supposed to eyeball it. It's impossible to get right just by watching, using a square etc. It will always cut an arc. Unless one loosens the screw just a tiniest bit and one taps if gently to move an invisible amount repeatedly... I wouldn't be surprised if bad reviews were because of it.
View attachment 441845


Indeed, those saws are nit bad machines, but adjusting them probably takes a lot of fiddling and many test cuts. Once dialled in, it works well, when it doesn't... It takes some time...
Cutting 6" material with a 10/14 tpi blade is far outside the normal rule of thumb. That being no less than 3 teeth engaged at any one time, and no more than 24 teeth. In this case there would be a minimum of 60 teeth engaged. It's only possible with extremely slow feed, and constant cleaning of the blade teeth. I try not to do it unless I'm really lazy. Changing the blade (98 1/2") is a bit of a PITA. If I only have a single cut to do I may take the liberty. Having said that it isn't a quick process. It may take several minutes to complete a single cut.

On the other hand, if I have multiple cuts to do it's far more productive to take the time to change the blade. It reduces cutting time considerably and lessens the chance of seizing the blade. When cutting large stock with a fine-tooth blade I have to watch closely to be sure the blade is actually moving through the stock. Sometimes it seems painfully slow.

The weight of the saw head is likely far more than is needed for proper down feed pressure. I only have the feed valve opened about 1/4 of the way to provide the recommended pressure. If I move it more than a few degrees beyond the reference point the head pressure is increased dramatically. If I move the reference point 120* from the off position the head is almost in a free fall. The cylinder on my machine uses 30W motor oil.

The rollers on my machine ride about 1/4" above the gullet of the teeth. If yours are set to ride against the teeth you may be removing the set (side to side offset) making a narrower kerf and allowing the gullets to fill to the point the blade will seize in the kerf.

I did notice that the infeed side blade guides on your machine are adjustable. Generally, they are moved as close to the vise as possible to keep the blade from twisting and making a curved cut. Another thing that will influence setting the guides and rollers is the blade tension. I noticed that in the Baileigh manual it mentions the blade should be tight enough that it will only move 1mm between the guides with "hand pressure". That's a bit subjective as are most band tension specifications. The manual for my machine recommends the blade be tightened as tight as possible using one hand on the knob. Again, extremely subjective, but generally trying to impart it should be tight rather than allowing enough play for the blade to wander.
 
I then raise the head and pick an anchor point for the spring that allows between 5 lbs. and 10 lbs. of down force with the valve fully open. I then close the valve and slowly open it until I have 6 psi of pressure on the scale. I mark that point and make a reference point on the front of the saw with a magic marker.
Perfect. I have a weight scale so I can do this quite easily. Thanks
 
I have a cheap Chinese bandsaw that looks like this:
View attachment 441791

My first issue with it is that at the time I bought it there was no model with built in cooling so my unit has no cooling whatsoever :-(

When cutting I've been giving it a squirt of coolant from time to time, for long cuts I've rigged a piece of tube filled with oil plugged with a cotton bud that allows oil to drop slowly onto the cut. However, I found oil is not very good for it, it contaminates the drive wheels and the blade doesn't grip as hard. It is very easy to stall after oil was used.

So my first question is about cutting steel with no coolant. How much less of saw life I can expect when cutting with no, or occasional coolant? Is coolant really necessary when cutting thick solid rods with such saw? I use m42 bimetal saws.

Second question is sort of related to the first. Because the saw would stall I had to set very slow down feed when cutting a particularly large piece. Unfortunately twice during the cut the down feed just stopped! I had to crack the valve open and close it again to get it going again. I bought the saw 4 years ago. Do I need to change the oil on the down feed cylinder? Or perhaps does it need a clean?

In general I would be quite happy with this saw if I managed to resolve that downfeed issue. I have some huge blocks of metal to cut, basically at the limit of the machine, but if the feed just stops on its own its going to be very annoying coming half an hour later seeing it hasn't moved.

Finally, does anyone have a good method for setting the saw guide rollers? They are kept and swivel on a single m8 bolt. There is no reference surface to set them to. It seems the only way is to adjust, then cut and see if it cuts crooked. If it does adjust a tiny bit by loosening the bolt and tapping, then cut again. Does anyone know a betteer method?
Have you thought of using a mist cooling system?
 
The best way to make a blade (or any cutting tool) last longer is to get rid of the rust and mill scale before proceeding.
Aaron
 
The saw has a spring with an adjustable anchor point at the pivot end of the head. I fully open the cylinder flow valve just to the left of the light in the first picture. Then attach a spring scale similar to this to the blade tightening knob (small black object on the left end of the saw below and to the left of the Startrite plaque on the front of the machine.


I then raise the head and pick an anchor point for the spring that allows between 5 lbs. and 10 lbs. of down force with the valve fully open. I then close the valve and slowly open it until I have 6 psi of pressure on the scale. I mark that point and make a reference point on the front of the saw with a magic marker.

That adjustable anchor point is a feature I haven't seen on a bandsaw (I haven't seen many of them). It's a neat feature :)

Cutting 6" material with a 10/14 tpi blade is far outside the normal rule of thumb. That being no less than 3 teeth engaged at any one time, and no more than 24 teeth. In this case there would be a minimum of 60 teeth engaged. It's only possible with extremely slow feed, and constant cleaning of the blade teeth. I try not to do it unless I'm really lazy. Changing the blade (98 1/2") is a bit of a PITA. If I only have a single cut to do I may take the liberty. Having said that it isn't a quick process. It may take several minutes to complete a single cut.

On the other hand, if I have multiple cuts to do it's far more productive to take the time to change the blade. It reduces cutting time considerably and lessens the chance of seizing the blade. When cutting large stock with a fine-tooth blade I have to watch closely to be sure the blade is actually moving through the stock. Sometimes it seems painfully slow.

The weight of the saw head is likely far more than is needed for proper down feed pressure. I only have the feed valve opened about 1/4 of the way to provide the recommended pressure. If I move it more than a few degrees beyond the reference point the head pressure is increased dramatically. If I move the reference point 120* from the off position the head is almost in a free fall. The cylinder on my machine uses 30W motor oil.

The rollers on my machine ride about 1/4" above the gullet of the teeth. If yours are set to ride against the teeth you may be removing the set (side to side offset) making a narrower kerf and allowing the gullets to fill to the point the blade will seize in the kerf.

I did notice that the infeed side blade guides on your machine are adjustable. Generally, they are moved as close to the vise as possible to keep the blade from twisting and making a curved cut. Another thing that will influence setting the guides and rollers is the blade tension. I noticed that in the Baileigh manual it mentions the blade should be tight enough that it will only move 1mm between the guides with "hand pressure". That's a bit subjective as are most band tension specifications. The manual for my machine recommends the blade be tightened as tight as possible using one hand on the knob. Again, extremely subjective, but generally trying to impart it should be tight rather than allowing enough play for the blade to wander.

Indeed, that 1mm of "hand pressure" play is pretty much the same as "make it as tight as possible with one hand on the knob, the other on the blade". I used to set it for less (I vaguely remember my old manual said 3mm - then, how hard are you supposed to press?).

Yesterday I thought about it this way. My blade is 6tpi, it moves 28m/min (or 1120 in per min) so we have 112 teeth go through the cut every second. Even if we want to cut only 50 microns (2 tenths of a thou) per tooth the blade should move half a mm per second. For 40mm (a bit under 2in) rod that cut should take under 2 minutes. The way I used to run that saw it would cut 5 times slower.

If I increased down feed the blade would slip. So I decided to set it really tight until it doesn't slip anymore at above speed. This turned out to be the "as tight as you can get it with one hand" tension. This indeed made it cut a lot better.

TThen the cylinder. I took it off, I removed the oil into a clean container so it can be reused. The oil is extremely low in viscosity. It sloshes like water in my unheated shop (about 5C or 40F). I flushed the cylinder pumping diesel through it for a bit and I filled it with "hv48" hydraulic oil (much thicker). Hoping it would extend the slow moving range. Unfortunately with such thick oil it is pretty much impossible to get rid of tiny air bubbles. Also, it made no difference whatsoever to the rates of feed per settings! I don't understand how that can be, but it is true. I used 6 and a quarter before, now 6 and a quarter is still the right setting, but it got worse in a way. It seems to "jam" a lot more frequently.

So I'll be removing that hydraulic oil and before I put the original oil back in I will test it with diesel. If tiny air bubbles cause the jamming they should float to the top in a diesel filled cylinder much faster.

Also those cylinders have one design fault (if it can be called that). Specifically, when the rod is extended there is more space in the cylinder than when the rod is down, as the rod displaces some oil. So if one fills it with oil with rod up, it will be impossible to lower it. However filling it properly causes negative pressure when that rod is extended. If the needle valve has even a tiniest leak this negative pressure will suck in air into the cylinder.

So a method of opening the valve all the way, to raise and lower the saw quickly, will soon cause air to enter the cylinder as my needle valve seems to leak only when opened (almost) fully. Therefore I have to remember not to open it all to the end or near it.

Have you thought of using a mist cooling system?

I have a DIY mist system I made for my Chinese mini mill. I made it (sort of) portable so I could use it with the saw if I made some bracket to attach it. I didn't think about it before, because I had issues with using oil and mist cooling uses (typically) mist of oil. Now that I determined my blade tension was far too low, perhaps I should give oil another go, and trying mist on it is a good idea too. On the other hand maybe I'll try filling it with emulsion too. The problem with mist is that if you set it fine enough to use just a little bit of coolant it tends to fill the shop with that must and it's the last thing I would want to breathe in. So I tend to fill it with vegetable oils incase I do breathe it in. I've been intending to make a vegetable oil based emulsion for a while. Perhaps now is the time :)

I really like machining with water emulsion coolant... But as everyone I hate cleaning an old dried up flood coolant sump.

The best way to make a blade (or any cutting tool) last longer is to get rid of the rust and mill scale before proceeding.
Aaron
Thanks, that's a good tip.

Edit: I've tried filling it with diesel... No change. It still gets stuck. Perhaps even a bit worse.

Now I'm trying to polish the valve's needle (the seat is just a hole that looks OK). We'll see if it helps.

Edit2: No, it doesn't
I start to understand why people give those saws bad reviews.

I polished the needle for mirror polish. I didn't do anything with the seat because it looked fine, also I would have to make a custom tapered big to recut it. I cleaned everything. I made oil of almost same viscosity it had before by mixing my hydraulic oil and my spindle oils. Made sure there are no air bubbles. I replaced o rings in the valve stem.

Still, when set to fairly slow feed (like one you would need for 5in solid round). It just slowly slows down and eventually stops. Grabbing the valve's knob and pulling on it to the side sometimes frees it without having to change the setting. It does this every few inches of travel.

I'm an my wits end with this valve. I think it is just a generally ****ty product. If I was making a valve like this I would make the stem a sliding fit in its channel. They, however left lots of clearance there and there are two o-rings to take that clearance. The result is that the valve stem is very easily misaligned a little. When you set the saw to drop quite fast this doesn't matter much, but if you want a very slow rate of drop the remaining orifice is tiny and even slight misalignment causes it to close...

Perhaps other models have slightly less crappy version of the valve... The only way I see it now is that I need to make a proper valve for it. I have no other ideas

If any of you is experienced in needle valves please answer two questions.

1.Is it better if the seat of the valve is tapered too? The existing valve uses a simple hole and a tapered "needle". I thought one needs two tapers perhaps the seat with a slightly wider angle for precision towards the end. Is that a good idea, or useless work?

2. Cheap needle valves have the needle come to a point and use its threads or shaft for alignment, but I also saw pictures of valves where the needle becomes straight below the orifice. Which one is better, if any?
 
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So my first question is about cutting steel with no coolant. How much less of saw life I can expect when cutting with no, or occasional coolant? Is coolant really necessary when cutting thick solid rods with such saw? I use m42 bimetal saws.

I use a cheap chinese saw, which is very different, but a lot of the fundamentals appear to be kin to yours. No coolant on mine, I wouldn't have the mess even if it were equipped. I flipped speeds a bit when I first got it, but it's been on the low speed almost forever. (At least forever in it's lifetime....) I use a cheap (very cheap) chinese bi-metal saw blade, and it just cuts everything. It's variable pitch, I think it's 10 tooth per inch on the coarse bits, and 14 tooth per inch on the finer bits. I would do the math, but I don't even know how metric nomenclature works for bandsaw blades.... The blade doesn't get but slightly warm, and usually doesn't warm at all. See if yours will do the same.

Second question is sort of related to the first. Because the saw would stall I had to set very slow down feed when cutting a particularly large piece. Unfortunately twice during the cut the down feed just stopped! I had to crack the valve open and close it again to get it going again. I bought the saw 4 years ago. Do I need to change the oil on the down feed cylinder? Or perhaps does it need a clean?

Mine is not hydraulic, it's counterbalanced with an adjustable spring. It's not common for me, but I have very few times seen exactly what you say, it just stops cutting, and sits there quietly churning away... But no cutting. I just push a finger on the end of the saw for a little more pressure, and when I see cuttings coming out, it's good again. I'd have a hard time guessing if yours was that issue, or a hydraulic issue. I kind of blame my problem on the blade being too fine, as I hesitate to own one of the "right blade" for every cut. I just use the one, and adjust the spring tension if (and only if) the material or the cut complains about it.

I'm inclined to think the problem is a cutting problem, since mine is capable of it too, and I have zero hydraulics. But the fact that you say "cracking" the hydraulic control corrects your problem makes me think differently. If the down feed has been still for some time, the cylnder should not be holding it any more, in any way, for your adjustment to work... What happens if you set the saw up with nothing in it, not running, and set the downfeed to as slow as you can get it to go? Can you get it to "stick" that way? You could set that up over and over again while you do other things, as if it does hang up, it wouldn't bother it to sit for hours (or days) until you happen to notice it again...

In general I would be quite happy with this saw if I managed to resolve that downfeed issue. I have some huge blocks of metal to cut, basically at the limit of the machine, but if the feed just stops on its own its going to be very annoying coming half an hour later seeing it hasn't moved.

Finally, does anyone have a good method for setting the saw guide rollers? They are kept and swivel on a single m8 bolt. There is no reference surface to set them to. It seems the only way is to adjust, then cut and see if it cuts crooked. If it does adjust a tiny bit by loosening the bolt and tapping, then cut again. Does anyone know a betteer method?

That's how my adjustment works. It's pretty crude. I prop the saw up a bit, for easier visual access, and rest a square on the table, to see the actual blade position. The square is as close as possible to the guide I'm adjusting. I find there's too much tension in the blade to fight with, so I ruled out "tapping" right off. I just stick a large adjustable wrench around anywhere I can, and loosen the bolt, then I move it in a controlled way to where I want it, and tighten the bolt again. It is not an exact science.... But the wrench makes it a lot more controllable than the hammer tap method.
 
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