Buyer Beware, Real vs. Counterfeit

[markba633csi]

That Gigi guy is the one who bids on his own stuff, apparently

 

[ChazzC]

I rarely buy items direct from China sold through eBay, Amazon, AliExpress, Alibaba, etc., as too often mainstream products are counterfeit or extremely poor quality. I try to verify authenticity of products before I make any purchase, by carefully reviewing the description and item pictures, as well as asking questions. More recently I was looking for a specific electrical sensor and due to supply issues they were not in inventory at the major suppliers that I use in the US, it was available through some eBay sellers out of China. One vendor seemed to be selling the authentic sensors based in the posted picture and description, so I ordered two sensors. What showed up to my dismay was a close copy, but didn't match the posted eBay picture or product specifications. I only knew the differences because I have installed 100's of these in the past and was familiar with the product. This is nothing new, as just about everything seems to be copied and sold at much lower prices these days. The irony is there are even some better made Chinese products are also copied and sold as knock offs.

The reason why I occasionally use eBay, is that in most cases you have some recourse to resolve an issue if a product is not as described, and many of the Chinese sellers will go to great lengths to protect their feedback ratings. But you first need to identify that what you received is not as described, then open a dispute case, and often the sellers will try to reduce the amount they credit you and the process can take weeks. The other factor with Chinese sellers is that they can afford to ship items to the US for next to nothing, but should you have to return an item it is exponentially more expensive and takes weeks if not months to get delivered. In this case the the seller excepted returns, but "buyer pays return shipping costs". If I had needed to return these sensors, the shipping costs would have been much more than the cost of the parts.

When it comes to counterfeit electrical parts, I typically find that fit and finish is worse than the OEM, and small details such as part finish, dimensions, performance are different. So I thought I would post this example, as "Buyer Beware" when you are buying items, as the flood of counterfeiting seems to be getting much worse and some sites it is the norm as opposed tot he exception. In the end, the seller gave me a long story "I picked up this batch from another supplier. The upstream supplier told me that this batch was the same as our previous ones and worked properly, so maybe I was fooled by him this time. I'm really sorry, this is the first time I've received this feedback, I've sold a lot before and never had any problems. Maybe it's because of the change of supplier this time.", whatever, it is always some story. In the end, the seller credited me what I paid, but it took a lot of time and distress that I didn't need, and hopefully well not get drawn into the dark side again.

Note the difference in the barrel and the sensor labeling, also to look at is the paperwork/box/specifications as they will not match the OEM product.
View attachment 457960

Dimensions did not match the OEM specifications.
View attachment 457961

Often they skimp on materials and fit/finish, you often see this on the materials and plated parts.
View attachment 457962


View attachment 457963
The indicator LED did not match the OEM specifications nor did it blink per the specifications.
View attachment 457964
The sensor operating distance was horrendously poor.
View attachment 457967
View attachment 457966

I assume you got a refund? Even if a Seller either doesn’t accept returns or wants the Buyer to pay shipping, eBay will refund you if the item doesn’t match the listing.

 

[mksj]

Yes, I did get a refund. With some sellers they try to settle for less and you keep the item. They know that the items can't be returned to China. If eBay had a policy that the seller pays the return costs if something is misrepresented, it might make them think twice about selling a lot of the garbage posted. I was well aware that there would be a high risk of the the item being counterfeit, but the posted picture was authentic, which led me to believe that sensors could be OEM.

The purpose of the post was more to know the product that you are buying and do your due diligence in advance as others have noted. Check comments and feedback, ask questions, and if you are going to purchase items online read the return policy. On Amazon, if an item is from other sellers, and just listed on Amazon, then often you pay the return costs/restocking. Unfortunately it appears that corruption has become more common place and accepted, the internet provides an access/front for many sellers. It is all about the $$, and nothing to do about sellers/products, until it effects their bottom line. It is unfortunate that these sites do so little to regulate the fraud, so "buyer beware". Also to add that this goes both ways, many buyers are as fraudulent as the sellers.

 

[ChazzC]

not necessarily, the term fly by night company describes companies that change names all the time and avoid our business etiquette. Especially in the residential contracting field. These days, you have many ways to search out a company that's brick and mortar, but these small companies online, it's quite difficult. Ebay, Amazon and similar companies help to hide the bad..

One of my favorite bashes is the vendor : gigigirl111 He should be removed from ebay. He is a total jerk, Yet somehow ebay erases some of the negative posts, and keeps him there. Some of the negative get through, and it often shows a guy that should be removed, it's always the buyers fault when he doesn't ship an item. His response is I'm banning you. Opening a case with ebay with this guy is futile.

So contrary to the argument that Chinese vendors are the worst, we have some locally based scum of the earth here in the USA.

I ordered from a guy I paid him immediately, he didn't send it out for 2.5 weeks or so (this was a while ago so exact numbers might be sketchy). I contacted him asking why he hadn't shipped it yet, and he told me rudely that he has another job and I should go f off, it's not that important.
Yea, I send him what I considered a large purchase, and he sends me his feelings about how unimportant my purchase is to him.

Unless the listing states otherwise eBay requires that items be “shipped” within 2 days.

That said I have had a couple of issues with getting a tracking number and nothing showing up at USPS for a week; when I messaged the Seller I was told that this happens all the time because packages don’t get scanned - remarkably, it got scanned (at origin) later that day!

 

[Provincial]

I had an Ebay item lately that took several weeks to ship. It is for a future project, so I had no problem with waiting, and it showed up just fine. If I had needed it sooner, it would have been a problem. I'm pretty sure that the seller was a brick-and-mortar business that intended to restock and was caught short when the supplier delayed inbound shipment.

I have dropped using Paypal, except when vendors insist. Even then, I fund the purchase with a Visa card, so I can get Visa to reverse the charges if there is a problem. I haven't had to do that yet, probably because the sellers realize that the money will be pulled back out of their accounts.

There is no way that I would buy anything from China except with a credit card.

 

[Jeff.64]

I rarely buy items direct from China sold through eBay, Amazon, AliExpress, Alibaba, etc., as too often mainstream products are counterfeit or extremely poor quality. I try to verify authenticity of products before I make any purchase, by carefully reviewing the description and item pictures, as well as asking questions. More recently I was looking for a specific electrical sensor and due to supply issues they were not in inventory at the major suppliers that I use in the US, it was available through some eBay sellers out of China. One vendor seemed to be selling the authentic sensors based in the posted picture and description, so I ordered two sensors. What showed up to my dismay was a close copy, but didn't match the posted eBay picture or product specifications. I only knew the differences because I have installed 100's of these in the past and was familiar with the product. This is nothing new, as just about everything seems to be copied and sold at much lower prices these days. The irony is there are even some better made Chinese products are also copied and sold as knock offs.

The reason why I occasionally use eBay, is that in most cases you have some recourse to resolve an issue if a product is not as described, and many of the Chinese sellers will go to great lengths to protect their feedback ratings. But you first need to identify that what you received is not as described, then open a dispute case, and often the sellers will try to reduce the amount they credit you and the process can take weeks. The other factor with Chinese sellers is that they can afford to ship items to the US for next to nothing, but should you have to return an item it is exponentially more expensive and takes weeks if not months to get delivered. In this case the the seller excepted returns, but "buyer pays return shipping costs". If I had needed to return these sensors, the shipping costs would have been much more than the cost of the parts.

When it comes to counterfeit electrical parts, I typically find that fit and finish is worse than the OEM, and small details such as part finish, dimensions, performance are different. So I thought I would post this example, as "Buyer Beware" when you are buying items, as the flood of counterfeiting seems to be getting much worse and some sites it is the norm as opposed tot he exception. In the end, the seller gave me a long story "I picked up this batch from another supplier. The upstream supplier told me that this batch was the same as our previous ones and worked properly, so maybe I was fooled by him this time. I'm really sorry, this is the first time I've received this feedback, I've sold a lot before and never had any problems. Maybe it's because of the change of supplier this time.", whatever, it is always some story. In the end, the seller credited me what I paid, but it took a lot of time and distress that I didn't need, and hopefully well not get drawn into the dark side again.

Note the difference in the barrel and the sensor labeling, also to look at is the paperwork/box/specifications as they will not match the OEM product.
View attachment 457960

Dimensions did not match the OEM specifications.
View attachment 457961

Often they skimp on materials and fit/finish, you often see this on the materials and plated parts.
View attachment 457962


View attachment 457963
The indicator LED did not match the OEM specifications nor did it blink per the specifications.
View attachment 457964
The sensor operating distance was horrendously poor.
View attachment 457967
View attachment 457966

AutomationDirect has 154 in stock:

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/sensors_-z-_encoders/inductive_proximity_sensors/18mm_round/dw-as-504-m18-002?utm_source=msn%20cpc&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=Discrete%20Sensors%20%3E%20Proximity%20Sensors&utm_campaign=DSA%20-%20All%20Searchers&utm_adgroup=Discrete%20Sensors&msclkid=28afb68285281df6b3cdd26bbfcaae1e&utm_content=Discrete%20Sensors

Hope this helps. Not exact but close.

 

[Jeff.64]

The difference between the DW-AS-504-M18-120 and the DW-AS-504-M18-002 seems to be the overall length. The 120 is 48.5 mm an the 002 is 63.5mm.

 

[mksj]

Yes I usually use the one's from Automation Direct, but I needed the shorter body one's for the application I wanted to use them for, I have alternates so not a deal breaker. I figured I would give it a shot, and I did get my money refunded. I usually avoid buying anything from China, I will not do it again. I have purchased items from all over the world, and rarely have had an issue, but mainland China is the exception.
Thanks.